New UEFA coefficient rules are BS

[Deleted member 14625]

UEFA coefficient is based purely on your performances in Europe. Until ours improve we have no chance of being a top seeded team.
The reason Dortmund were in Pot 4, PSG in 3 etc is because they have not been in euorpean competition in the last 5 years.

Yeah we've been unlucky both times with our groups, but with the team/squad that we have, we certainly should be coming second, at the very very least.

The average pace of our side is too slow to cope with the quick running speed and quick passing ability of decent European sides. The only way we'd do well in Europe is to park the bus like we did in Roberto's first full season in the Prem; 451, sit back, defend well, hope to nick a goal. We are passed around and ran past in Europe unbelievably easily. So I don't see how "we certainly should be coming second, at the very very least". Not only that but Real Madrid are comfortably better than us, they're on another level to us. And I'd argue that Dortmund are the third or fourth best team in Europe, behind Real Barca and probably on a par with Bayern...all ahead of us.

 

[Cobwebcat]

UEFA coefficient is based purely on your performances in Europe. Until ours improve we have no chance of being a top seeded team.
The reason Dortmund were in Pot 4, PSG in 3 etc is because they have not been in euorpean competition in the last 5 years.

Yeah we've been unlucky both times with our groups, but with the team/squad that we have, we certainly should be coming second, at the very very least.

The average pace of our side is too slow to cope with the quick running speed and quick passing ability of decent European sides. The only way we'd do well in Europe is to park the bus like we did in Roberto's first full season in the Prem; 451, sit back, defend well, hope to nick a goal. We are passed around and ran past in Europe unbelievably easily.

There is nothing special about European football there are just good teams and bad teams from everywhere. Arsenal out pass us but we finished on many more points than them.

Real Madrid Barca are miles ahead of everyone not just us.

Bayern are better too and its close between us and Dortmund. I've watched most of Dortmund's games this season and their performance against us was easily their best.

Ajax would finish around 7th in the Prem we just performed badly (as we did against Villa in the cup)

 

[Maldeika]

UEFA coefficient is based purely on your performances in Europe. Until ours improve we have no chance of being a top seeded team.
The reason Dortmund were in Pot 4, PSG in 3 etc is because they have not been in euorpean competition in the last 5 years.

Yeah we've been unlucky both times with our groups, but with the team/squad that we have, we certainly should be coming second, at the very very least.

The average pace of our side is too slow to cope with the quick running speed and quick passing ability of decent European sides. The only way we'd do well in Europe is to park the bus like we did in Roberto's first full season in the Prem; 451, sit back, defend well, hope to nick a goal. We are passed around and ran past in Europe unbelievably easily. So I don't see how "we certainly should be coming second, at the very very least". Not only that but Real Madrid are comfortably better than us, they're on another level to us. And I'd argue that Dortmund are the third or fourth best team in Europe, behind Real Barca and probably on a par with Bayern...all ahead of us.

Dortmund is not on par with Bayern... ;)

After last week they are even behind Schalke - and you only need a Müller or Ribery to beat Schalke, you do not even need both... ;)

Yes - Barca is above everyone. But is Real? I doubt that...

 

[Loucyber]

Agreed, the drawing of this group has been unlucky, but the UEFA-system seems fair to me. At least it is fairer than the Clubelo system.

After all it is an european competition. Historically only the ruling national champions qualified for CL. This changed, maybe due to the fact that more and more smaller leagues joined competition, and of course UEFA wanted to generate more profit by adding more clubs from the top leagues.

Thus England, Spain and Germany may have up to 4 participants, whereas e.g. Iceland has to run through qualification. This already is in favour of the big nations, but it seems to be accepted, as the big nations definitely have the best european teams in their league.

If you´d use Clubelo, teams like Ajax or Basel (Switzerland) simply wouldn´t get a chance to get to pot 1, because their national leagues are not good enough - no matter how good they really are.

Furthermore, Clubelo wouldn´t help you in deciding how many slots a nation gets in EL and CL. In this matter you´d still need UEFA coefficients.

So I like the system as it is, perhaps with more attention to the current success of a team. For instance, you could look at the last 6 years, but double the points from the last 2 years, and halve the points from year 5 and 6.

Thus clubs like PSG, City, Juventus and Dortmund could rise up faster to the higher pots, when they play a successful first european year.

 

[JoesephCalzaghe]

Dortmund is not on par with Bayern... ;)

After last week they are even behind Schalke - and you only need a Müller or Ribery to beat Schalke, you do not even need both... ;)

Yes - Barca is above everyone. But is Real? I doubt that...

They are quite easily.
They defended the national title masterfully. They beat Bayern 5 times in a row and trashed them 5-2 in the cup-final, which was built as the biggest national game in Germany for the last 20 years.
At the moment they're paying the price for having a very small roster. Against Schalke they weren't able to replace 4 of their best players (Gundogan and Gotze are crazy) adequately and played with guys from the U-20-team, but their starting lineup is pure world class.

But i have to agree with the thread-starter. I think CItys seeding is appropriate, but there should be mechanisms preventing a group like this to happen. It's just not fair & balanced and it makes it nearly impossible to improve the coefficient. It's kind of a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Bunk]

People who support the existing UEFA coefficient rules support inequality and elitism.

 

[Deleted member 14625]

People who support the existing UEFA coefficient rules support inequality and elitism.

"Support" or "not arsed either way"?

By supporting Sheikh Mansour we're supporting inequality and elitism.

We need to improve in the CL and by making and learning from mistakes and playing against better teams than ourselves right away, and not playing sides worse than us (we do that week-in-week-out in the Prem), we will get better quicker.

 

[Bunk]

People who support the existing UEFA coefficient rules support inequality and elitism.

By supporting Sheikh Mansour we're supporting inequality and elitism.

That's totally different.

 

[Vienna_70]

That's the whole point of the coefficient system.

It maintains the status quo, which it was designed to do.

 

[Cobwebcat]

Agreed, the drawing of this group has been unlucky, but the UEFA-system seems fair to me. At least it is fairer than the Clubelo system.

After all it is an european competition. Historically only the ruling national champions qualified for CL. This changed, maybe due to the fact that more and more smaller leagues joined competition, and of course UEFA wanted to generate more profit by adding more clubs from the top leagues.

Thus England, Spain and Germany may have up to 4 participants, whereas e.g. Iceland has to run through qualification. This already is in favour of the big nations, but it seems to be accepted, as the big nations definitely have the best european teams in their league.

If you´d use Clubelo, teams like Ajax or Basel (Switzerland) simply wouldn´t get a chance to get to pot 1, because their national leagues are not good enough - no matter how good they really are.

Furthermore, Clubelo wouldn´t help you in deciding how many slots a nation gets in EL and CL. In this matter you´d still need UEFA coefficients.

So I like the system as it is, perhaps with more attention to the current success of a team. For instance, you could look at the last 6 years, but double the points from the last 2 years, and halve the points from year 5 and 6.

Thus clubs like PSG, City, Juventus and Dortmund could rise up faster to the higher pots, when they play a successful first european year.

A couple of good points there but a misunderstanding of how Clubelo works...look how high Porto are. If you are in a weak league but are very good you win more so it is possible. It's miles fairer than UEFA and could still work within uefa's limits on the number of entrants from the same country....you would just miss the 5th best team from the same country out and carry on down the list.