New v Old supporters

didactic said:
Grand Master Ram Rod said:
If people want to buy into us that's different, that's business, that's their job.

That goes for the manager, coaching staff, players etc. It's their job, they're getting paid to do this, so they can come from wherever they want to for all I care, just like in every other job in the world. They've all come and gone in the past but us supporters have always stood by the club. They get paid, we don't. Totally different imo.

The owners have been operating at a loss close to half a billion pounds. Infact with the amount of money they invested it could have gone and turned around ANY team in the Premiership. So they are not being paid they are doing it because they have taken an interest "though recent" in the club. Its like anything else you cannot have you cake and eat it.

Either you stay a local club with a small amount of die hard supporters with local ownership or you get investment from someone else who due to that investment increases the brand. I know it is a tough pill to swallow but none of us own the club, infact the club is owned by someone who has only ever been to Manchester a handful of times.

Its like the local players argument (which is not what I think you are saying, I am just using it as an example) they say lets play only home grown talent but that drags down the quality of the league. Like it or not the best players from from elsewhere Tevez, Fake Ronaldo, Torres, Drogba and its the same with club ownership the richest owners come from elsewhere and bring with them a new fan base.

Do you genuinely feel you have the right to tell the Sheikhs son that he is not welcome as a supporter because he is not local when his father owns the team? What about the millions in the middle east who now support the club and come to games because their oil money is buying those shiny new players? Where does the distinction start and where does it end? What qualifies you more than someone else in America who has been watching and following the team for the same amount of time? A birth right?
I'm not saying they can't support us, they can do what they want. I just don't understand why they do and unless they have a really good reason, I don't think I ever will. I'm basically saying I just won't respect them as much as I do true hardcore supporters. It's probably wrong but it's how I feel.

When I see a Malaysian/Irish/Cockney United fan on TV, I always have a little chuckle to myself and it makes me even more proud to be a blue. If we start getting all that, it'll proved we've finally made it but I will also feel a little bit sick inside. Especially considering the majority just sit at home watching it on TV.
 
didactic said:
Grand Master Ram Rod said:
If people want to buy into us that's different, that's business, that's their job.

That goes for the manager, coaching staff, players etc. It's their job, they're getting paid to do this, so they can come from wherever they want to for all I care, just like in every other job in the world. They've all come and gone in the past but us supporters have always stood by the club. They get paid, we don't. Totally different imo.

The owners have been operating at a loss close to half a billion pounds. Infact with the amount of money they invested it could have gone and turned around ANY team in the Premiership. So they are not being paid they are doing it because they have taken an interest "though recent" in the club. Its like anything else you cannot have you cake and eat it.

Either you stay a local club with a small amount of die hard supporters with local ownership or you get investment from someone else who due to that investment increases the brand. I know it is a tough pill to swallow but none of us own the club, infact the club is owned by someone who has only ever been to Manchester a handful of times.

Its like the local players argument (which is not what I think you are saying, I am just using it as an example) they say lets play only home grown talent but that drags down the quality of the league. Like it or not the best players from from elsewhere Tevez, Fake Ronaldo, Torres, Drogba and its the same with club ownership the richest owners come from elsewhere and bring with them a new fan base.

Do you genuinely feel you have the right to tell the Sheikhs son that he is not welcome as a supporter because he is not local when his father owns the team? What about the millions in the middle east who now support the club and come to games because their oil money is buying those shiny new players? Where does the distinction start and where does it end? What qualifies you more than someone else in America who has been watching and following the team for the same amount of time? A birth right?

Owned. +1
 
Grand Master Ram Rod said:
I'm not saying they can't support us, they can do what they want. I just don't understand why they do and unless they have a really good reason, I don't think I ever will. I'm basically saying I just won't respect them as much as I do true hardcore supporters. It's probably wrong but it's how I feel.

When I see a Malaysian/Irish/Cockney United fan on TV, I always have a little chuckle to myself and it makes me even more proud to be a blue. If we start getting all that, it'll proved we've finally made it but I will also feel a little bit sick inside. Especially considering the majority just sit at home watching it on TV.

We have already have all that.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=167024481132" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=167024481132</a> (group full of Malaysian fans).

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=167024481132#!/group.php?gid=174174884226" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=1 ... 4174884226</a> (The Tokyo & Japan Manchester City Football Club (MCFC) Supporters Group).

Welcome to the big leagues.
 
jjeangi said:
Owned. +1

Lets be civil, I am not trying to "own" him as I actually understand where he is coming from and respect his opinion. Mearly trying to get insight into why some feel that way.
 
didactic said:
Grand Master Ram Rod said:
I won't accept new fans.

For me you should support your local team or the team your dad/grandad/family member support.

Anyone who starts supporting us now that isn't local or have family links is just jumping on the ship and I'd treat you like I'd treat a Cockney/Irish red etc.

It's not a popular opinion but it's how I feel.

I don't mind people liking us, as I like Barcelona, but I'd never even consider saying I support them.

I like certain players too, but I'd never follow a team because of a player, infact that's even sadder.

There's clubs to support in every country, they might be shit, but you should be proud of that club no matter what, just like us true blues have been when we've been shite in the past.

Fair enough does this go with investment too? I mean the money building the club is "new money" they are not locals or have any ties or heritage when it comes to the club? If the manta is only locals and those who have been around since the start then should all the investment be taken out of the club as it does not fall into this category?

I've supported City all my life I have seen us win the league and fa cup etc I have also seen several owners come and go and whilst the current owner is fantastic when he eventually moves on I will still be a blue

I am a mancunian and City is a part of my life I don't care where anyone comes from or how long they have been a blue but if I am totally honest I always think blues should be Mancunians

I don't care if they have been to every game for the last twenty years but they were born in say kent or Ireland the one question that will always nag me is why don't you support your local team like I do ?

this may be very unpopular view but I am being honest and I can't be a hypocrite I have slagged of the rags for years about this and I don't see any difference just because they picked City instead of the rags

the Manchester is in our name for a reason
 
whp.blue said:
I've supported City all my life I have seen us win the league and fa cup etc I have also seen several owners come and go and whilst the current owner is fantastic when he eventually moves on I will still be a blue

I am a mancunian and City is a part of my life I don't care where anyone comes from or how long they have been a blue but if I am totally honest I always think blues should be Mancunians

I don't care if they have been to every game for the last twenty years but they were born in say kent or Ireland the one question that will always nag me is why don't you support your local team like I do ?

this may be very unpopular view but I am being honest and I can't be a hypocrite I have slagged of the rags for years about this and I don't see any difference just because they picked City instead of the rags

the Manchester is in our name for a reason

Fair enough. But you do realise the owner has the right to call the club anything he wants and lets say he moved it to new bigger ground outside Manchester? What then?
 
I wonder about the "I'm a better blue than you" mindsets people have, that are touted as black and white, "you are or you aren't" attitudes, and yet seem to me actually be quite contradictory. I mean no offence to anyone, but I always saw it as a way of reacting to the rags' global success, and being able to turn around to a scum fan and present a case for superiority when clearly our club had nothing on the pitch it could boast about instead. For instance, we talk about how the "legitimate" reasons for supporting a club are A - they are your local team or B - your family supported them and passed it onto you. Yet can we really treat these as implicit? For instance, if you knew a really obnoxious armchair rag, the kind who claims there's too much of a waiting list to get to a game and often doesn't know what game is on, who lived in London and he happened to get a job in Manchester (or Trafford or Salford depending on your particulars) and ended up living closer to OT than you did to COMS, yet they continued making no attempt to attend games and generally acted like a fair weather fan, how many would turn around and say "fair play, they're your local team, you're as true a fan as I am so long as you support them"? Maybe some, but I reckon even I would begrudge any rag of that sort the "moral superiority" of living near the ground and would probably refuse to extend them that courtesy. And what about people whos' parents were Mancs but moved away? People who talk about being Manc making you true blue may agree that if it's in your blood then you are still blue, but we still get lots on here saying "unless you live in Manchester you aren't as blue as me". Is that an implication that, if you're a Manc and move away, then you should stop supporting City, or you become less of a fan? And what about those who have been there through the hard times, and never questioned their support, but are bigger fans now than they used to be? Are they good fans for being there at our worst point, or bad fans for not supporting actively enough until the club became big.

Take me for example. I am perhaps the ultimate "mongrel" City fan. I was born in Herts and have always lived here. I love it here and feel no affiliation to the city of Manchester. However, my mum came from Cheadle Hulme and passed her city blood to me. She was only ever a mild fan of football, and finds the actual game tedious and refuses to watch it, yet follows the scores. I therefore had no driving force to become an absolute fanatical supporter, yet I was always a City fan, no question. I still have memories of my friends at primary school singing me the "After all, they've got Alan Ball" song. Since I had family up in Cheshire still, my parents took me to see league games at Christmas when we were on holiday, but only when we dropped out of the Prem and the prices dropped (I assume). The only two home games I've been to see were 2-1 win against Stoke in the third tier and the 2-1 win against Grimsby in the second tier, boxing days 1998 and 1999. I have numerous replica kits - all the way back to a Phillips shirt - remember listening to the play-off final on the radio and always loved Kinkladze yet I couldn't remember most of the other names until I properly got into football when I went to university and was suddenly surrounded by friends who were actual full-time supporters, as opposed to the "occasionally say I like a team" typical supporters in Herts - this was coincidentally right before Thaksin's takeover. Now I will follow every game by any means I can when I can, can't stop talking about City to family and friends, etc etc. My faith in City is unquestionable, and I still classify myself as an "older" fan, the type who expects us to lose every week and celebrates the 40 point mark every season. I only don't attend games personally because I am skint and jobless, though I was sat with the Brums fans at the latest match, and I tell you I the penalty was the worst feeling in the world. Oh, and to top it all off, my family goes far enough back to Manchester that I actually had a great-great-(great?)-uncle invited to play for City (and the rags, but let's ignore that one) in 1914, but unfortunately that never came to fruition since he died in the war.

Aside from personally being born in Manchester, I therefore satisfy every condition, and yet in a way satisfy none of them. Am I therefore a real fan, or a fake one, a johnny-come-lately?

At the end of the day, I don't think you can use these things to judge people. Having the history is good and allows you to share memories others don't have, but I bet there are more knowledgeable fans than me who have been supporters for less time, and who have attended more matches. To me, the real test of a true fan is whether they truly care about the team - whether each loss genuinely hurts, whether they follow the team regularly, and most importantly, whether they will still be fans if we go back to the third tier.



Rant over.
 
I don't see why this is an issue. You can support the club if you want whoever you are, or wherever you are from.

If you are talking about having the respect and trust of other fans, that's not a right any of us have or earn except by time and friendship. You can' t decide to support City on Monday and expect all other blues to be your best mate by Tuesday. It don't work like that.
 
i know what some are saying but the world aint like that anymore. If they truly support the club then fair enough I suppose although why you wouldn't support your local team if you have one I don't know and can't understand.

Plastic 'fans' who say they support City but never go to games and have no connection with the club through location/ family/ whatever will receive the same level of scorn as plastic rags in my book. A meaningless boast backed up by nothing of substance.

Its about shared experience. The plastics will never experience what we have been through, or will go through, and will never have City in the blood the way that we do.

I read about mountaineering. I like watching programs about mountaineering and have some DVD's to entertain me. I converse with people about their experiences and admire them from afar. However, all my interest means nothing if I don't actually see and then climb those mountains and become a mountaineer. Different levels you see.

I hope we never have the numbers of plastics following City that the rags do.
 

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