NHS Crisis

[Chippy_boy]

How about they enforce their own taxation rules and plough the tens of £Billions avoided every year by those more than able to actually afford to pay and use that?

Hunt is currently running around, pointing the finger at a different group on an almost daily basis as he desperately tries to lay the blame at anyone other than his own door and its laughable.

Far too much money is wasted on bureaucracy, level after level of needless management, much of it incompetent and over paid and finally, in privatising the NHS by the back door.

1. God in heaven, not the tax avoidance BS again like that's the answer to everything. Do you honestly think there's easy money just lying around that no government for the past 20 years could be arsed to pick up? There's been upteem clamp-downs and tightening up and yes some tax evasion remains, but squeezing more out is the hard yards and it's naive in the extreme to imagine that at the snap of your fingers billions of extra money appears. This will solve nothing regards NHS funding.

2. More soundbites with no actual substance. How is it Hunt's fault FFS. He only has the money the treasury will give him. He's not sitting on a personal fortune of billions is he.

3. Agreed, agreed, agreed and more privitisation beyond the trivial levels at the moment would be good.

 

[Chippy_boy]

What really baffles me is why some people seem to think the politicians actually give a fuck, the vast majority are out for them selves and their paymasters. I have no doubt there are some honest ones with good intentions but they are very few and far between.

Absolute, complete, utter, unmitigated bollocks.

 

[Chippy_boy]

.
We have the money, that is badly invested by a shower of shite government, we could fix and fund the NHS if there was political will, and there isn't

Brilliant, great news. This should on News at Ten: Newsflash, Urban Genie - a poster on the popular Bluemoon forum - has solved the NHS funding crisis because he's found the money. It was under the spare bed after all!

You are right that we could fix the NHS if there was political will to raise taxes further or increase the deficit further. And there is no will to do that, so we are stuck with the funding challenges we have.

 

[mcfcphil]

This cherry picking of the profitable easy parts out of public NHS hands makes it impossible for a Trust to cover the costs of all the other hard to do, non profitable areas.

I can tell you for a fact - through being heavily involved myself - this isn't always the case and sweeping statements like this just don't progress the issue in any kind of constructive way.

In some cases - as I am involved in - certain services within the trusts are actually being supported by private providers. If anything it is saving the taxpayer money and the trust would be up shit creek in a big way otherwise. So much so that the NHS organisations don't even bid for the contract in the first place.

Bottom line there are great private companies and there are awful private companies. There are fantastic NHS trusts and there are God awful NHS trusts. But the situation is now tribal and pro-NHS people will never, ever recognise the benefits that private organisations can bring. And vice versa.

It's a real shame and until people move this argument on from public/private (which is laughably simplistic) and actually work together towards improving the health service then we'll get nowhere.

 

[stonerblue]

I've taken my wife to 6 hospital appointments this month, and still got 2 to go. The staff at Hope are marvellous and, despite a hiccup or two, have made everything go smoothly.
Was at MEH on Friday, which was rammed, and it was the same there. Despite the difficult circumstances we were in and out in 2 hours.
All the facilities are there, lots of gleaming new machinery etc. The simple fact is there are not enough doctors/specialists to cope with demand.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I can tell you for a fact - through being heavily involved myself - this isn't always the case and sweeping statements like this just don't progress the issue in any kind of constructive way.

In some cases - as I am involved in - certain services within the trusts are actually being supported by private providers. If anything it is saving the taxpayer money and the trust would be up shit creek in a big way otherwise. So much so that the NHS organisations don't even bid for the contract in the first place.

Bottom line there are great private companies and there are awful private companies. There are fantastic NHS trusts and there are God awful NHS trusts. But the situation is now tribal and pro-NHS people will never, ever recognise the benefits that private organisations can bring. And vice versa.

It's a real shame and until people move this argument on from public/private (which is laughably simplistic) and actually work together towards improving the health service then we'll get nowhere.

Bravo. Best post in the thread.

 

[JASR]

I can tell you for a fact - through being heavily involved myself - this isn't always the case and sweeping statements like this just don't progress the issue in any kind of constructive way.

In some cases - as I am involved in - certain services within the trusts are actually being supported by private providers. If anything it is saving the taxpayer money and the trust would be up shit creek in a big way otherwise. So much so that the NHS organisations don't even bid for the contract in the first place.

Bottom line there are great private companies and there are awful private companies. There are fantastic NHS trusts and there are God awful NHS trusts. But the situation is now tribal and pro-NHS people will never, ever recognise the benefits that private organisations can bring. And vice versa.

It's a real shame and until people move this argument on from public/private (which is laughably simplistic) and actually work together towards improving the health service then we'll get nowhere.

The private sector has tried multiple times to take on the 'hard' stuff, and have pulled out every time when it proves unprofitable.

People talk about the NHS should be awash with money, it isn't.
1. Crippling PFi overcosts - which has to be paid off the top, 1st.
2. Percentage of Health GDP spend being one of the lowest in Western World
3. The leeching of money by private companies in the most profitable areas, which is taken out of the system rather than being reused and reinvested across a trust.
4. The leeching of money for ancillary hospital work by private companies e.g. Building Maintenance - it can take stacks of time, paperwork, and inevitably leeching of inflated invoice value, just to get say, a noticeboatd installed.
5. The continuous spend on external consultants who will reorganise to their own best interests or their associated private companies.
6. The continuous belittling of professionals doing their jobs in the face of continuous employer (govt) agitation - let alone media.The bollox of the govt line on doctor's hours, and now GP's, in the face of MP's hours being cut and the ever increasing income, expenses, pensions for themselves.

 

[blueinsa]

The private sector has tried multiple times to take on the 'hard' stuff, and have pulled out every time when it proves unprofitable.

People talk about the NHS should be awash with money, it isn't.
1. Crippling PFi overcosts - which has to be paid off the top, 1st.
2. Percentage of Health GDP spend being one of the lowest in Western World
3. The leeching of money by private companies in the most profitable areas, which is taken out of the system rather than being reused and reinvested across a trust.
4. The leeching of money for ancillary hospital work by private companies e.g. Building Maintenance - it can take stacks of time, paperwork, and inevitably leeching of inflated invoice value, just to get say, a noticeboatd installed.
5. The continuous spend on external consultants who will reorganise to their own best interests or their associated private companies.
6. The continuous belittling of professionals doing their jobs in the face of continuous employer (govt) agitation - let alone media.The bollox of the govt line on doctor's hours, and now GP's, in the face of MP's hours being cut and the ever increasing income, expenses, pensions for themselves.

This is by far the best post of the thread @Chippy_boy

 

[urban genie]

Brilliant, great news. This should on News at Ten: Newsflash, Urban Genie - a poster on the popular Bluemoon forum - has solved the NHS funding crisis because he's found the money. It was under the spare bed after

You are right that we could fix the NHS if there was political will to raise taxes further or increase the deficit further. And there is no will to do that, so we are stuck with the funding challenges we have.

There is an actual public majority willing to pay an NHS tax, so would not be obsticle to any party introducing it, so why you keep using that as a reason I don't know.

The political will is the closing down of walk in cetres by this vile government when they were a coalition, the walk in centres that took presure off gp's and a&e.
This shite government scuppering a bill to force major pharmaceutical companies to liscence cheaper drugs saving the NHS millions.
And a complete arse of a health secretary trying to force a 7 day service while cutting the money on an already strugling 5 day service.

All these things are driving our doctors out of the profession and putting more pressure on.

The lack of political will is ideological and all about selling off and privatisation.

 

[blue cigar]

The private sector has tried multiple times to take on the 'hard' stuff, and have pulled out every time when it proves unprofitable.

People talk about the NHS should be awash with money, it isn't.
1. Crippling PFi overcosts - which has to be paid off the top, 1st.
2. Percentage of Health GDP spend being one of the lowest in Western World
3. The leeching of money by private companies in the most profitable areas, which is taken out of the system rather than being reused and reinvested across a trust.
4. The leeching of money for ancillary hospital work by private companies e.g. Building Maintenance - it can take stacks of time, paperwork, and inevitably leeching of inflated invoice value, just to get say, a noticeboatd installed.
5. The continuous spend on external consultants who will reorganise to their own best interests or their associated private companies.
6. The continuous belittling of professionals doing their jobs in the face of continuous employer (govt) agitation - let alone media.The bollox of the govt line on doctor's hours, and now GP's, in the face of MP's hours being cut and the ever increasing income, expenses, pensions for themselves.

Is the correct answer, at last someone talking sense.