NHS Crisis

A significant part of the current crisis is that Social Care providers (who are 90 percent private employers) are not taking people into care who are supposed to be discharged from hospital. There is not a sufficient profit (or sometimes no profit at all) in it for them because of cuts to social care budgets.

They are businesses and I am not blaming the care homes for that. I am making the point that your aren't addressing the real issues because of focussing on public versus private arguments / ideology.



Tim ...... rest assured that there is no social care budget you or your family pay for it. I have a relative in care...Alzheimers , immobile from the waist downwards, doubly incontinent and they don't qualify for social care. Costing us £550 a week care
 
There is an actual public majority willing to pay an NHS tax, so would not be obsticle to any party introducing it, so why you keep using that as a reason I don't know.

The political will is the closing down of walk in cetres by this vile government when they were a coalition, the walk in centres that took presure off gp's and a&e.
This shite government scuppering a bill to force major pharmaceutical companies to liscence cheaper drugs saving the NHS millions.
And a complete arse of a health secretary trying to force a 7 day service while cutting the money on an already strugling 5 day service.

All these things are driving our doctors out of the profession and putting more pressure on.

The lack of political will is ideological and all about selling off and privatisation.
Rubbish, complete rubbish.

"Cutting the money" - are you drunk or just educationally subnormal?
 
Rubbish, complete rubbish.

"Cutting the money" - are you drunk or just educationally subnormal?

In 20015 George Osborne's spending plans amounted to a cut the real wider health budget by over 20 per cent over the next five years despite headline promises to increase NHS spending.
He systematically reclassified budget funding to cut in ares like the NHS repair fund knocking it down from £4.6b to £3.8b
as well as other areas.
These policies are yet to be reversed and are ongoing.

Monitor, the governments own reporting section warned in 2013 closing the walk on centres would in future years put stress on GP's and A&E.

An not I am not subnormal, thank you very much.
 
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any need for that?

Don't worry I ain't offended. This is a discussion thread and people will have different opinions based on what they believe, if my percieved knowledge seems uneducated to others so be it.
I come here to have a laugh and good discussions no point getting all annoyed by the place or posters who don't agree with you.
 
I've been doing quite a bit of reading on this, to add to my own family's experiences. It seems we have one of the lowest beds/1,000 people in Europe and one of the lowest in the OECD at the last count (which was a few years ago). That figure is gouing to be cut by about a third so we'll have less beds pro rata than almost every other developed nation before too long. We also spend far less as a percentage of GDP than the EU average.

Back in 2000, Blair committed us to spending at least the average, which was then 8.5% of GDP. However, by the time we got to that figure (it was 8.8% in 2009) the EU average weighted spend was 10.1% so we were still 1.3% below the curve. On current projections for GDP & NHS spending, that figure will be down to 6.6% in 2020 compared to 7.3% now. Even just to keep pace with GDP growth, we'd have to spend an additional £16bn (per year) than is currently planned.

Because of differences in funding, it's tricky to compare spending across different health care systems but one comparison is to compare on the basis of public + private expenditure. On that basis we spent 8.5% of GDP. That's about 1.7% below the EU average (excluding the UK) and 13th out of 15th of the original EU members. Ireland and Luxembourg being lower. So we're historically low spenders compared to our peers and if we want a comparable health service we have to spend about 20% more than we are currently doing.

But that has to be funded and we've three choices in essence - pay more tax, borrow more or increase private funding of medical care. Also cutting costs where possible but PFI has landed the NHS with what appears to be a ridiculous level of on-going costs for capital and revenue spending. As others have said, there has been a move to do lower-risk, lower cost procedures in the private sector, leaving the NHS to pick up the high-risk, higher dependency stuff. I don't have an ideological issue with private resources being used to provide NHS services where that's cost effective and maintains a high level of quality. The problem is that the NHS, like the education system, is an ideological football. The ideal would be a Health Commission that is independent of political control and decides and implements the strategy of providing healthcare, with a guaranteed level of funding (as a % of GDP). This will need to interface to government but not be subject to political interference.

As part of that we need to have a well-thought out approach to the key healthcare functions:
  • Prevention
  • First point of contact (GP, other Primary care centres, Ambulance services and Hospitals)
  • In-patient and out-patient care
  • Social care
We also need to accept that we may need to pay more, via higher taxes, higher public debt, reduction of spending on other things, private contributions or a combination of some or all of these. The other issue with something that is free at the point of delivery is that these things get taken for granted and there may be circumstances where some sort of rationing needs to be applied.
 
Don't worry I ain't offended. This is a discussion thread and people will have different opinions based on what they believe, if my percieved knowledge seems uneducated to others so be it.
I come here to have a laugh and good discussions no point getting all annoyed by the place or posters who don't agree with you.
Very magnanimous of you. As I said above, sorry.
 

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