NHS Privatised behind our backs?

[Zin 'messiah' Zimmer]

I work for the biggest provider outside of the NHS

The reforms in the US health care system pointed towards alternative outlets for business, the pharmaceutical companies who back such business will end up where?

The Americans are coming, is it such a bad thing?

 

[Bigga]

I work in a part of the NHS, currently, after switching jobs after my accident and from I've seen so far, there's a LOT of unnecessary bureaucratic f*ck ups and waste!

In the dept I'm in, there's a huge budget waste because other depts are overworked or have long time staff not bothered to work with depts, like mine, and therefore cause us to overspend in order to get patients records to their appointments. Almost £50, 000 in transport that could have been avoided.

It's ridiculous what goes on.

Saying that, there's supposed to be a huge electronic overhaul that's been in planning for the last 5 years, I believe.

The few weeks I worked at Wythenshawe was an eye opener, just looking at the computers and old arse paperwork people use is baffling. The technology has been there for years to make everything more efficient.

No doubt this new overhaul will be outdated tech.

Probably, but outdated tech is still tech and cheaper tech, at that! It's probably the only way to stop companies robbing the NHS blind.

That said, the ideal of converting everything to electronic data is pretty impossible! They will always need hard copies of everything, in case data is lost. The example of Virgin's broadband going down, whilst they worked on maintenance, grinding everything to a halt, is prime evidence to data flow being crucial to the hospital.

And if this flow is indefinite in resolving the problem, patient care is affected. Hard copy is needed, therefore Human Beings are needed, therefore bureaucracy is going to happen, therefore money is going to be wasted.

The NHS cannot escape from this side of things and that's only the smallest of small drops in the NHS ocean.

 

[Rascal]

I work for the biggest provider outside of the NHS

The reforms in the US health care system pointed towards alternative outlets for business, the pharmaceutical companies who back such business will end up where?

The Americans are coming, is it such a bad thing?

It explains why Cameron refuses to exempt the NHS from the upcoming transatlantic trade deal.

 

[mcfc1632]

I've posted this elsewhere, but it's more appropriate here...

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CSp6HsQVtw[/video]

Unbelievable!

I have been doing some management consultancy for DH and the NHS these last few years and I am grateful to have this presentation. It is the most succinct explanation of the current landscape and strategy I have seen - I will make use of it.


The key thing for me is that it seems that most people simply have little idea of the reality of the NHS and how it has been developed over many years - and certainly at least as much by Labour as the current government .

There has been increasing understanding of the need to split the 'commissioning' and 'provider' roles - hence the move to PCTs and Trusts - increasingly Foundation Trusts. Lansley's desire to place commissioning responsibility with GPs as they are closest to the people whilst well intended in principle was not practical hence the CCGs as set out in this presentation - it might seem complex but it can work well - if now left alone from political interference.

Also the need to improve care in the community - closer to patients has been week understood for many years and this accordingly means the transfer of some services from the big Acute hospitals.

The really big need is to achieve an integrated Health & Social Care provision that will ensure much better care provision and much improved use of funding.

All this is a good thing - not just IMO but in the opinion of most/all people that actually are involved in managing implementation and people that can get their heads away from just thinking about how the NHS was 50 years ago.

Problem is that citizens just listen and react to sound bytes. They might heat that an A&E is planned to be closed and react as if the world is ending - when in fact it is generally (always) part of a clinical and healthcare strategy for the area with services being provided in a better fashion. There is a need to stop duplicating services and stop providing services from Acute hospitals that should be provided in the community.

And yes within this environment there is a key role for the commissioning of services from the private sector as well as the NHS providers - FFS it is 2015 and not 1965 - the world has moved on.

But all (certainly the comprehensively vast majority) of quality people in the upper echelons of the NHS know that the really really really important thing for the NHS to be successful is to break it free from being the political football of the major parties that crassly use it to try and gain votes by bamboozling the electorate and then bringing forward yet more change - generally at management rather than service levels.

Simon Stevens has just been appointed and what he needs is to have 10 years minimum to manage implementation of the current strategy without more interference from either Labour or the Tories.

 

[The perfect fumble]

I've posted this elsewhere, but it's more appropriate here...

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CSp6HsQVtw[/video]

Unbelievable!

I have been doing some management consultancy for DH and the NHS these last few years and I am grateful to have this presentation. It is the most succinct explanation of the current landscape and strategy I have seen - I will make use of it.


The key thing for me is that it seems that most people simply have little idea of the reality of the NHS and how it has been developed over many years - and certainly at least as much by Labour as the current government .

There has been increasing understanding of the need to split the 'commissioning' and 'provider' roles - hence the move to PCTs and Trusts - increasingly Foundation Trusts.

Also the need to improve care in the community - closer to patients has been week understood for many years and this accordingly means the transfer of some services from the big Acute hospitals.

The really big need is to achieve and integrated Health & Social Care provision that will ensure much better care provision and much improved use of funding.

All this is a good thing - not just IMO but in the opinion of most/all people that actually are involved and can get their heads away from just thinking about how the NHS was 50 years ago.

Problem is that citizens just listen and react to sound bytes. They might heat that an A&E is planned to be closed and react as if the world is ending - when in fact it is generally (always) part of a clinical and healthcare strategy for the area with services being provided in a better fashion. There is a need to stop duplicating services and stop providing services from Acute hospitals that should be provided in the community.

And yes within this environment there is a key role for the commissioning of services from the private sector as well as the NHS providers - FFS it is 2015 and not 1965 - the world has moved on.

But all (certainly the comprehensively vast majority) of quality people in the upper echelons of the NHS know that the really really really important thing for the NHS to be successful is to break it free from being the political football of the major parties that crassly use it to try and gain votes by bamboozling the electorate and then bringing forward yet more change - generally at management rather than service levels.

Simon Stevens has just been appointed and what he needs is to have 10 years minimum to manage implementation of the current strategy without more interference from either Labour or the Tories.

I'm pleased you can make use of it, but....

- FFS it is 2015 and not 1965 - the world has moved on.

In 65 we were a market economy, today we're a market society. Things have changed but that shouldn't be confused with progress.

 

[M18CTID]

Dont forget the employment agencies charging upwards of £3,000 for a doctors shift and £2,000 for a nurse!

Its criminal and legislation needs to be introduced to prevent such profit making.

It's frightening how much money is being wasted on contracted out services. It seems that these companies can charge what they want and no-one in authority appears to be questioning it. Surely commonsense dictates that if certain things have to be contracted out then bids are invited of which the most competitive wins the contract. In addition to the cupboard story and yours about employment agencies, I have one of my own. Last year I was receiving treatment for a foot problem and attended a few appointments at a mobile NHS unit about 15 minutes walk from my house. As I was getting ready to leave home for my last appointment, a bloke turns up in a vehicle. Turns out he was sent to give me a lift to my appointment. I told him I was perfectly capable of walking there myself but he said as he was there I may as well accept the lift as it was his last job of the day. Clearly it was an administrative error and they should never have sent someone for me in the first place. I've no issue with that - everyone makes mistakes and I've no issue with this "taxi" service being offered to those genuinely in need of it to get to their appointments. However, when I was in the car with him he told me that after he was finished he would take the vehicle to a company in Trafford Park to get it professionally cleaned. I'm assuming this was something that was done weekly. Thing is, and the driver was quick to concur, the car was spotless inside and out yet it was probably costing £60-£70 a pop to get it cleaned every time. Multiply that by all the other vehicles in the fleet and you're talking a lot of money. I mean, fucking hell, you can get a cracking valeting job done for a tenner at most places!

 

[Tim of the Oak]

I've worked in the NHS and social care for 25 years. I'm a Director of a Health organisation. Regarding affordability going forward this is my views based on experience:

1. I don't like PFI but the bigger threat are terms agreed by the Trusts / hospitals. It's like buying a mortgage, Central Manchester / the MRI negotiated reasonable rates but Wythenshawe Hospital / UHSM did not - hence the emergency loans etc.

2. Yes Labour are no better than the Tories when it comes to privatising health services. However, the motives were / are a bit different. Labour were committed to ending excessive waiting times for patients but needed extra capacity from the Private Sector to help to achieve this. The result was the maximum 18 week wait with average waits for planned care of 9 weeks. This meant - in practice - no wait since most people like a couple of moths to plan their lives for non urgent care. Andrew Lansley was happy for any provider to compete for NHS contracts but collaborations are essential to healthcare like the NHS, social
Care, voluntary organisations working together.

3. There are efficiencies that can be made without damaging care but Healthcare still needs more investment overall to reflect the ageing population and increasing complexity of care - many people have a range of conditions at the same time. Fellow Bluemooners have rightly identified more cost effective purchasing. The other common denominator for more product care is collaborative efforts from clinicians, support workers and managers. I've been at Wythenshawe and North Manchester General Hospitals lately and seen examples of tribalism that is impeding care and adding costs. That said, the staff are also proving lots of good care and with the majority being very committed people.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

As long as services are still free at the point of delivery then I don't really care who provides that service, as long as the quality they provide is acceptable. If the most effective way of doing that involves using private companies then I'm OK with that as long as patients are getting the right care as quickly as possible.

The problem is the quality and I've seen that in action with my mum, who has dialysis and chemotherapy twice a week. She relies on transport to get her there and back and that's provided by Arriva, who outbid (i.e. undercut) NWAS by £3.5m to get the contract. They are shit however and often leave her waiting for transport for two hours or more in the evening. A couple of times it's been close to 10pm by the time she's been brought back, having been waiting since 6. They've had record number of complaints but the lying twat of a CEO claims that satisfaction levels are very high. I can only assume that they're more interested in profits than providing a good service and that's the key issue.

Providers who don't measure up should be barred from taking on any further contracts unless they agree to meet more stringent targets.

 

[Zin 'messiah' Zimmer]

I work for the biggest provider outside of the NHS

The reforms in the US health care system pointed towards alternative outlets for business, the pharmaceutical companies who back such business will end up where?

The Americans are coming, is it such a bad thing?

It explains why Cameron refuses to exempt the NHS from the upcoming transatlantic trade deal.

Big business in pills bud

 

[Tim of the Oak]

The problem is the quality and I've seen that in action with my mum, who has dialysis and chemotherapy twice a week. She relies on transport to get her there and back and that's provided by Arriva, who outbid (i.e. undercut) NWAS by £3.5m to get the contract. They are shit however and often leave her waiting for transport for two hours or more in the evening. A couple of times it's been close to 10pm by the time she's been brought back, having been waiting since 6. They've had record number of complaints but the lying twat of a CEO claims that satisfaction levels are very high. I can only assume that they're more interested in profits than providing a good service and that's the key issue.

Providers who don't measure up should be barred from taking on any further contracts unless they agree to meet more stringent targets.

I agree with you PB about quality of care and I know from my mum's care that the transport "services" are shit.

Also, the frequency with which services are re-tendered and the inadequacy of quality checks exacerbates problems. I doubt it is a coincidence that many of the MPS who supported reorganisations under the Health and Social Care Act are on the payrolls of private health companies!