Nigel Farage

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

He appeals to the less informed, and far right opinions are usualy swallowed by them.

It's interesting listening back to his speeches before the referendum. You should try it sometime. He is so full of bullshit, as all the leavers were, but he was the champion of it.

It's sad in a way now, observing his behaviour and those of his colleagues during our last days of involvement in the European Parliament. There they were, flying their flags, being obnoxious as a group, and relishing the idea they were 'shoving it up 'em' and patriotic Brits would love it and lap it up. The EUSSR was being put in its place. No more dictats from the beastly Europeans with their un-elected rule makers trashing our way of life.

A minority did, and probably still do, love him for it, and they probably enjoy watching the him on GB News. 'Yeah, he's great, that Nige bloke, he really tells it as it is'.

Reality can be a strange bedfellow at times, and while he was championing his patriotism with his flag waving nonsense, and proudly proclaiming ' Our Independence Day' on the night of the referendum result, he was fundamentally mistaken in what he thought was best for Great Britain.

What he was at the forefront of was a campaign to take the UK out of the most prosperous economic bloc on the planet, a bloc we had a major influence in as rule makers which over the years had increased the prosperity of us all as trade barriers were removed and freedom of movement helped all sorts of businesses over the years. It was the brainchild of Margaret Thatcher, a woman I couldn't stand, but it was one of her shining moments.

We are now a third country, rule takers, devoid of any influence and our exporters are seeing their businesses crumble under the weight of paperwork now required that Farage promoted under the guise of WTO rules, which were never explained as being ruinous for our exports but were magically accepted without question by those that didn't understand the implications.

He may well promote himself as being Great for Britain, but he has almost single handedly been one of the most destructive people in our economic history. We have higher inflation, lower growth, a labour shortage and a failing economy, and we are the only member of the G7 with a lower GDP than before the pandemic.

Our loss of exports is costing the Treasury close to £40B in lost revenue, and I voted to remain to prevent all that from happening. Our standard of living is on the decline, it was widely predicted by every economist on the planet, it was dismissed as 'Project Fear' by Farage, and if you think the wreckage of brexit caused by his bullshit makes him a 'decent bloke', then that's your choice.

Persoinally, I think he's a gobshite of the highest order.

Seems like a smashing bloke, just the sort you could have a laugh with over a couple of pints.

 

[frothy]

You need a new routine, I think. Don't you think it says a lot about frothy that he can't stand and fight his corner?

I'm still here, and I've no corner to fight just laughing at the piss boiling that happens to the lefties when is name is mentioned

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I'm still here, and I've no corner to fight just laughing at the piss boiling that happens to the lefties when is name is mentioned

You fucking bastard, do you even realise this is a serious political debate and not just a load of cunts on a city forum?

 

[ZenHalfTimeCrock]

I'm still here, and I've no corner to fight just laughing at the piss boiling that happens to the lefties when is name is mentioned

Okay.

Let’s dispense with the ad hominem attacks on Farage and ‘piss-boiling’ and make this purely about reasoned debate rather than left/right politics.

In order for this to happen, it will be necessary to express some of Farage’s arguments in a syllogistic format consisting of premises leading to a conclusion.

Here is a little primer on how to go about this.



A hint: Farage typically deploys inductive, a posteriori reasoning when making the points that he does.

Remember that when it comes to inductive reasoning, conclusions are merely probable.

Here is an example:

All swans are white.
X is a swan.
Therefore, X is white.

The conclusion in this inductive argument seemed to be pretty sound for Europeans…until Dutch explorers discovered black swans in Australia in 1636.

Now here is one of Farage’s arguments presented in a syllogistic format.

All Albanians who cross the channel in dinghies are economic migrants not genuine refugees.

X is an Albanian who has crossed the channel in a dinghy.

Therefore X is an economic migrant not a refugee.

Just to be clear, Farage’s claim is made in this brief interview:



So are there any equivalents of a ‘black swan’ i.e. Albanians who have arrived by dinghy but are genuine refugees/asylum seekers?

The answer is ‘yes’. See here:

FACT CHECK: Albanian boat arrivals - Migrant & Refugee Children's Legal Unit

Breaking the Chains is a unique project designed to meet the specific needs of asylum-seeking children and young people from Albania, as one of the most marginalised communities of asylum seekers, by providing a holistic legal representation and advice service which is child-centred and...

miclu.org

So that’s one of Farage’s claims debunked for a start.

Wonder how some of his other arguments might fare when subjected to the same treatment?

 

[NPBlue]

Seems like a smashing bloke, just the sort you could have a laugh with over a couple of pints.

He's probably as friendly as everyone else you can have a laugh with over a couple of pints, I'll grant you that, but he's nothing special in that regard. There are plenty of people in the world you can have a chat with in convivial surroundings with a log fire crackling in the background while enjoying a pint or two.

I'm sure Jacob Rease-Mogg is a thoroughly delightful chap on a personal level.

That doesn't mean they aren't complete dickheads when it comes to their influence on how the UK is performing post brexit.

Attila the Hun probably had a few laughs with his mates down the pub.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Attila the Hun probably had a few laughs with his mates down the pub.

Pubs weren’t around back in his day

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I'm sure Jacob Rease-Mogg is a thoroughly delightful chap on a personal level.

I would be utterly amazed if that was true.

 

[NPBlue]

I would be utterly amazed if that was true.

Take his politics out of the equation, and he always comes across as being very polite and courteous.

I can't stand him personally, but that's because of what he says and what he represents, not how he is as a person. I've not worked for or with him, and those that have may paint a different picture, but his name is absent from all the scandals of bullying and sexism that have tarnished the, erm, 'good name' of the tory party over the last few years.

Pubs weren’t around back in his day

They had their equivalents in those days.

He died at a feast, bleeding to death among his followers, and he did like a pint or two.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Take his politics out of the equation, and he always comes across as being very polite and courteous.

For the purposes of analysing his character, his politics are irrelevant to me.

He routinely talks over political opponents when they are trying to make a point. That is rude and discourteous. Did you find the way he slouched on the Commons benches to be polite and courteous?

In fact, I’d go as far as saying he’s a seriously shit ChristIan, based on his lack of manners and generally disposition towards others, and if Jesus was alive today he’d think that Rees-Mogg was a ****.

I suppose, in fairness to the point you were making, I’d quite like to go for a pint with him in order to inform him of that finding. I’d even get the first (and only) round in.

 

[NPBlue]

For the purposes of analysing his character, his politics are irrelevant to me.

He routinely talks over political opponents when they are trying to make a point. That is rude and discourteous. Did you find the way he slouched on the Commons benches to be polite and courteous?

In fact, I’d go as far as saying he’s a seriously shit ChristIan, based on his lack of manners and generally disposition towards others, and if Jesus was alive today he’d think that Rees-Mogg was a ****.

I suppose, in fairness to the point you were making, I’d quite like to go for a pint with him in order to inform him of that finding. I’d even get the first (and only) round in.

I agree with everything you say, and I was scathing on here about him with his slouch on the couch moment. He was also a screaming, crazed bully during one of the leadership votes, reducing many to tears.

I was thinking purely about a social situation or chance meeting somewhere if you didn't know who he was when I wrote my post, when he would probably seem a little odd, but also very polite.

I have no doubt he is an utter twat in his professional life, and a seriously misguided Christian. If I met him, given everything he has said and voted for over the years, it would be a delight to rip him to shreads in a conversation.

 

[Vic]

For the purposes of analysing his character, his politics are irrelevant to me.

He routinely talks over political opponents when they are trying to make a point. That is rude and discourteous. Did you find the way he slouched on the Commons benches to be polite and courteous?

In fact, I’d go as far as saying he’s a seriously shit ChristIan, based on his lack of manners and generally disposition towards others, and if Jesus was alive today he’d think that Rees-Mogg was a ****.

I suppose, in fairness to the point you were making, I’d quite like to go for a pint with him in order to inform him of that finding. I’d even get the first (and only) round in.

Jesus is alive and he thinks Farage is a whitewashed sepulchre.

 

[hilts]

He's probably as friendly as everyone else you can have a laugh with over a couple of pints, I'll grant you that, but he's nothing special in that regard. There are plenty of people in the world you can have a chat with in convivial surroundings with a log fire crackling in the background while enjoying a pint or two.

I'm sure Jacob Rease-Mogg is a thoroughly delightful chap on a personal level.

That doesn't mean they aren't complete dickheads when it comes to their influence on how the UK is performing post brexit.

Attila the Hun probably had a few laughs with his mates down the pub.

Attila was known to be a pretty nasty drunk unless he was on the gin at which point he was very sullen.

 

[Grassland Blue]

Pubs weren’t around back in his day

JC turned water into wine once at a wedding...

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

 

[bluethrunthru]

 

[metalblue]

The BBC documentary on Putin v The West, where it focused at the start on cause and effect - certainly raises some thought provoking questions around EU actions. Not in the sense that they caused this but rather how they could have trod differently.

I’m conflicted on this. I can see history judging the EUs initial involvement in Ukraine as well intended but clumsy, it certainly helped to inflame the worsening situation on the streets that ultimately killed over 5000 protesters - but also equally doused those flames in persuading Yanukovych to step aside which prevented that death toll being considerably higher.

 

[bluethrunthru]

The BBC documentary on Putin v The West, where it focused at the start on cause and effect - certainly raises some thought provoking questions around EU actions. Not in the sense that they caused this but rather how they could have trod differently.

I’m conflicted on this. I can see history judging the EUs initial involvement in Ukraine as well intended but clumsy, it certainly helped to inflame the worsening situation on the streets that ultimately killed over 5000 protesters - but also equally doused those flames in persuading Yanukovych to step aside which prevented that death toll being considerably higher.

Gonna go out on a limb here and say the whole of the responsibility is in the hands of a certain Mr V Putin and the likes of Farage and Trump are so taters deep in his thrall they seek to deflect from that point - if you accept that the EU ( and others ) have some blame in what is happening in Ukraine today then please explain why Britain and Chamberlain have no responsibility or blame for the ca5rnage and deaths of WW2 because the pursued a policy of appeasement with Hitler and got a scrap of paper that fixed it all............

 

[metalblue]

Gonna go out on a limb here and say the whole of the responsibility is in the hands of a certain Mr V Putin and the likes of Farage and Trump are so taters deep in his thrall they seek to deflect from that point - if you accept that the EU ( and others ) have some blame in what is happening in Ukraine today then please explain why Britain and Chamberlain have no responsibility or blame for the ca5rnage and deaths of WW2 because the pursued a policy of appeasement with Hitler and got a scrap of paper that fixed it all............

Strange equivalence - I’ve never said they don’t. They do, and Baldwin before him. Rhineland was on his watch.

Of course Putin is responsible for rolling his tanks over the border whilst labouring under the notion that his army would brush Ukraine aside. He wasn’t taking some moral stand here despite his rants, and there is no way he’d have gone in if he thought it wouldn’t be a straight forward walk in the park and over in the week with barely a bullet fired. That is the result of his macho ego and taking faux offence at anything and everything. Nonetheless are you seriously suggesting the EU is entirely faultless in Maidan (and before)? Even with hindsight (which is how history judges us all)?

 

[west didsblue]

Strange equivalence - I’ve never said they don’t. They do, and Baldwin before him. Rhineland was on his watch.

Of course Putin is responsible for rolling his tanks over the border whilst labouring under the notion that his army would brush Ukraine aside. He wasn’t taking some moral stand here despite his rants, and there is no way he’d have gone in if he thought it wouldn’t be a straight forward walk in the park and over in the week with barely a bullet fired. That is the result of his macho ego and taking faux offence at anything and everything. Nonetheless are you seriously suggesting the EU is entirely faultless in Maidan (and before)? Even with hindsight (which is how history judges us all)?

Not sure why this is even being debated. Putin is 100% responsible for the invasion and did it because the majority in Ukraine wanted to look west rather than east, and Farage is a traitorous **** who is completely full of shit and more than likely up to his neck in funding from Russia. The EU's actions during Euromaiden were irrelevant to the situation today and are just one of a list of pretend reasons that Putin uses. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Did I mention that Farage is a traitorous ****? Can't be said too much.

 

[metalblue]

Not sure why this is even being debated. Putin is 100% responsible for the invasion and did it because the majority in Ukraine wanted to look west rather than east, and Farage is a traitorous **** who is completely full of shit and more than likely up to his neck in funding from Russia. The EU's actions during Euromaiden were irrelevant to the situation today and are just one of a list of pretend reasons that Putin uses. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Did I mention that Farage is a traitorous ****? Can't be said too much.

One word, diplomacy. It’s a diplomats job to be aware and sensitive to how their actions and words will be received - no matter how polar or ridiculous the views of the other side seem.

History is rarely, if ever, created by a single event and I don’t think there was an inevitability about Putin invading either. Although there was, at some point, that infamous “point of no return” for Putin and nothing anyone could do or say would stop him - by the time the west realised this was probably a long time after Putin had decided it has passed. He flexed his muscles back in 2014/15 but ultimately he made a pause of sorts, perhaps he was unsure of himself or maybe he hoped the west would come with gifts and welcome him back into the fold. I doubt we will ever know but I’m sure future historians will offer an opinion or 3…assuming we aren’t wiped out of course ;)