my point still stands the dispatch officer is only relaying a report of an incident, its still not the facts, they can only be established at the scene, the timing is irrelevant they arrived when they arrived and he was still alive and in obvious distress asking for helpI wasn't just the first one to speak at the scene that would have influenced the initial actions of the attending officer. The officers would have been primed by their dispatch officer prior to arrival, who would have given them a rundown of the situation, based on the details of the 999 call, which we now know to be a cruel fabrication.
Establishing the facts of any situation when you arrive on scene is often difficult at the best of time, and a whole lot worse in a high-pressure situation. It's a tragedy what happened, and the irony is that had the officers been taken more than a few minutes to arrive he would have already been dead, and this wouldn't even be a national news story.
I may be wrong, but I thought @Ric cleansed the thread because it was constantly getting derailed away from the thread topic, not because of people becoming personal.
If that is true, then I for one would encourage another cleanse and a reminder for all to stay on topic and use the correct threads.
They’re not that party anymore though, we’ve seen the leaked communications where they are looking to just tax anyone and everything they can to hand over for benefits. They’re no longer the party of the workers, they’re the party of those not working and their policies have put people out of work.It's depressing reading comments like this which are so common these days.
I think you should take a bit of time to think about the benefits left wing morons have given you, each and every one opposed by the tories.
It's been a battle, bloody at times, for the average person to raise themselves above the level of abject poverty bestowed on us by our Lords and Masters which has been the norm for centuries.
What we have isn't normal. Having nothing is traditionally the norm. Don't take your paid hoiday leave, free healthcare, pensions and consumer protections for granted.
The people you support despise you.
They’re not that party anymore though, we’ve seen the leaked communications where they are looking to just tax anyone and everything they can to hand over for benefits. They’re no longer the party of the workers, they’re the party of those not working and their policies have put people out of work.
To circle it back to this actual thread topic, Farage is a Thatcherite in his economic position and a return to that other extreme would be a disaster too. We need a tweak to get the economy moving again, probably where Sunak had the country before he was voted out.
Thats exactly what I’m referring to. It’s also reflected in their policies. They were were only interested in “who can we tax in order to pay benefits to others?” apparently. That was from the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. How isn’t that substantive? You can see it in the latest budget changes from Reeves too.What are all these leaked communications you refer to? Are you referring to McFadden's email to Mandelson or something more substantive ?
so ignore everything from the radio message and start from afresh at the scene-and that would've speeded things up for Henry's benefit? How?my point still stands the dispatch officer is only relaying a report of an incident, its still not the facts, they can only be established at the scene, the timing is irrelevant they arrived when they arrived and he was still alive and in obvious distress asking for help
terrible policing by those officers at the scene
How could the Nottingham murders have been avoided?Nottingham murders and southport too. Both unfortunately could have been avoided
not what i've said if you have read my previous posts, what a ridiculous thing to sayso ignore everything from the radio message and start from afresh at the scene-and that would've speeded things up for Henry's benefit? How?
Because the murderer had been flagged up, should have been sectioned in a secure unit, but wasnt because ‘they’ felt there was an over representation of black men in secure units.How could the Nottingham murders have been avoided?
yes-there were numerous opportunities when mental health services failed him and ultimately the victims.Because the murderer had been flagged up, should have been sectioned in a secure unit, but wasnt because ‘they’ felt there was an over representation of black men in secure units.
The southport murderer had similar concerns about him but social workers backed off for similar reasons
Imagine being a parent of a murdered kid knowing that!
I suggest you have a look online, it was headline news why they let the murderer back out on to the street.How could the Nottingham murders have been avoided?
but many in the media want to blame the police which is nonsense-he was failed by the health service-and ultimately you can link that back to chronic underfunded.I suggest you have a look online, it was headline news why they let the murderer back out on to the street.
Thats exactly what I’m referring to. It’s also reflected in their policies. They were were only interested in “who can we tax in order to pay benefits to others?” apparently. That was from the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. How isn’t that substantive? You can see it in the latest budget changes from Reeves too.
Farage would likely strip the majority of benefits away and whilst I think the bloated state does need trimming, taxes do need cutting to get the economy going and red tape does need removing in areas, his acceleration would be too significant and isn’t the answer either. We need stability with the economy now, we need to back working people it’s looking like the onky real choices for the future won’t offer that balance.
What would you consider substantive? If leaked communication from someone actually in government stating it and actual government policy doesn’t convince you, there’s nothing that will.Actually I don't consider that substantive tbh. Have you ever been in a political party? The higher up the greasy pole people get (or want to get) the more time they spend bitching about their own people and in internecine warfare rather than looking outward. Labour are bad for it but I think it's a common trait across most parties. Imo the fact that McFadden is the SoS isn't material in that exchange, it's a senior member of the party from one wing bitching about his lot with his mentor (who happens to have been discredited as someone almost or as treacherous towards the country as Farage). It's a useful line for the press to pick up on though.
As for the question of the bloated state the data says that irrespective of party the UK state has run pretty consistently at about 40% of GDP since the 1950s. The only substantive increase in percentage terms (by a couple of percentage points) has been during the Conservative government of the COVID and post covid era. Given what that government had to contend with I don't think that's a particular excessive increase and overall the data doesn't suggest that there's been a bloating of the state. Also the UK is pretty much in the middle of the pack for size of state in comparison to it's peers.
It obviously has a significantly larger state in percentage terms than the US and what has changed over the decades is the relentless narrative about our 'bloated' state driven mostly from actors on the other side of the Atlantic. Personally having spent a chunk of my working life there, I have no desire to live in a poundshop facsimile of the US.
Btw - I think the reason we've not been able to reclaim that couple of percentage points is because our economy has not been able to recover from COVID at the same rate as our peers and I think the reason for that is not the size of the state but the decades of under investment prior to the pandemic. The projection for the size of our state is to remain fairly stable with any midterm rises drive by age related social issues and our debt interest.
So how we stimulate the economy sufficiently is a source of contention but let's assume we can't or don't want to try and borrow our way out of it. Unfunded tax cuts will send the markets barmy so unless you want to completely overhaul pensions and old age provision then even savage cuts in other areas of expenditure is unlikely to raise enough revenue and that's before you consider the societal damage it might do. So tricky as it is I think we have to look at the people who are one of if not the biggest drag on the UK economy and that would be the portion of the super rich who simply extract wealth from the economy without investing in it.
Anyway that's for another thread and at least we are agreed that Farage is unfit for office, I think.
What would you consider substantive? If leaked communication from someone actually in government stating it and actual government policy doesn’t convince you, there’s nothing that will.
Black people are seven times more likely to die after police restraint in Britain in comparison to white people statistically, figures demonstate this FACT (like it or not)
This was confirmed in the most recent disparity report by INQUEST, completed over the last few years. Reminder, stats are a more accurate way of defining reality than a bunch of deluded right whinge nutj○bs.
Remember when PC Benjamin Monk, a police officer, unlawfully killed ex-Villa footballer, Dalian Atkinson, by tasering him to the ground (discharging three times) and kicking him in the head so hard it made bootlace prints?!
Dalian died outside his father's house in Telford. This was after a disturbance at Dalian's father's house and police received a call. Dalian was on dialysis for end-stage kidney failure and, unknown to him, had high blood pressure, heart disease and was a mental health patient at the point the police ended his life.
The officer was leniently jailed for eight years in a case of clear cut police brutality after around six years of the family waiting for justice. No violent riots pursued in the meantime from the Black or 'lefty' community, no extra measures taken to protect Black people as usual and it has been highlighted how corrupt or inefficient the police can be by this page or numerous other anti-r*cist organisations.
Let’s compare the response of this grifting, racist, misogynist piece of shit, not to a black American man murdered by a policeman in America but to a white British woman abducted, raped and murdered by UK policeman Wayne Couzens.
It was an horrific event and Couzens was sentenced to whole life in prison and will, hopefully, never get out,
After Couzens was convicted, the grifter issued yet another ‘address’ and said the following:
“We must not allow the tragic murder of a young woman turn into attacks on men and attacks on the police”
Not only that, he actively defended the police whilst urging the British public to stay calm and not to let this bad apples action poison the well of the police.
Compare and contrast his latest public utterances about 2 tier policing and then actually said
“The rest of us responded with pure, cold rage”
The desired riots and attacks on the police dutifully followed.
What could have motivated the grifter to have changed his approach from one senseless murder to another?
It can only be either the perpetrator of one was white and the other wasn’t or that one victim was a woman and one was a man. Sadly, it’s likely both of those things are true.
Still, nobody is asking him about £5 million anymore…
I think that's a bit unfair on Starmer. What Farage said warranted a response from the PM and I thought his response was as measured as could reasonably be expected. Farage needed calling out and even Badenoch called him out too.A very fair comparison.
I watched PMQ this week and Farage asked the question, yes he is politicising what happened, but so I thought did Starmer in his response. I would have liked to have heard Starmer say I will not play those games over a tragic death or words to that effect. More statesmen like and more fitting of the situation IMHO.
To defeat Farage you have to get off his playing field.