North Stand Construction Discussion

I’m torn on the fans calling the club out to be honest as I completely understand us wanting a home end, blue wall etc but also the club wanting it to be financially viable and successful and making it a fan experience in that area just under level two ( I think? ) we are living the dream with our owner and what they are building is truly magnificent so I’m sure it doesn’t sit right with them either that this unique design needs to be 100% approved by the fans only? I’m definitely not looking to antagonize with this post either by the way but just because they are wealthy not everything can be decided by what fans want? This build will go past £300m as projects always do and the CO OP arena for the CFG part would be £200m ish? The investment into the club is monumental let alone if we go and spend £200-300m on new players this summer and wages etc. Ticket prices would be worth fighting about more than this imo but it could have been maybe discussed more behind closed doors before a public post has been made? Especially by our own main fan group who by the way do an amazing job every season of creating displays etc!
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
I could be wrong, but it doesn’t sound promising in terms of getting a proper home end. It would be a massive wasted opportunity and something we will probably never be able to create after this expansion.
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What is a proper home end?

Football supporters have changed greatly in the last decade, football was once the game of the working man, thank is no longer the case.

Football is expensive and a lot of the people who pay the huge ticket prices often want more than a seat , a pint and a pie,and who has the right to say they are unworthy fans for the "home end"
 
LEXSTARproject said:
1894 ASK CLUB TO ORGANISE A FULL FANS CONSULTATION ON THE NORTH STAND
There is a slightly misleading report in Wednesday’s Manchester Evening News. Contrary to their report we currently DO NOT have confidence that the atmosphere will improve under the club’s current plans.
After receiving survey results from almost 1,500 fans- which we passed onto the club, we say it is now time the club organised a full consultation starting with those currently in the North Stand.
In our view plans currently do not have atmosphere at the forefront of their plans, the position and size of the GA+ section being one such example.
1894 were invited to meetings as the club wanted us to be “anchor tenants” of the new stand, which was supposed to be The Blue Wall.
We are not aligned on much with the club at the moment on this development. We of course recognise the club has to maintain revenues but this is the last chance to sort the atmosphere at The Etihad. It’s a golden opportunity to transform the atmosphere once and for all but we feel it’s currently an opportunity the club are not grasping and time is running out. Rather than have handpicked focus groups to run plans past, we feel it is necessary now that the club consults fully.
This is what we have told the club , ie our vision based on our own surveying :
* Many fans would move and buy in to an atmospheric North Stand. The club cannot be half hearted about it though. It has to be a proper end otherwise people are inclined to stay where they are, given so many people have already had to move over the last 20 years.
* Rail seating in North Stand Level 2 - perhaps 7,000 with seating in NS Level 1 (enough space to retain a family stand if people wanted that). An under 25s section in NS2
* Club need to outline their pricing policy - ideally for the next 5 years - before fans are going to make a move.
* Currently 70% of home section is seasoncard. This ratio needs to be maintained after expansion.
No photo description available.

All reactions:
181181
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Absolutely no reason to build a big second tier and it not to be a designated home end, which was aimed at improving the atmosphere. If it’s not going to be an end for the singing fans, they should have just built a replica of the south stand.
 
I know some of you who filled in 1894's survey were keen to see the results... Here's a summary:

1894 North Stand Development Survey

Introduction
1894 has been invited to attend a meeting with MCFC in July regarding the North Stand Expansion. There will be representatives from the Official Supporters Club (OSC) and City Matters (CM) present also. 1894 have created and shared a survey with City fans ahead of the meeting. The survey was shared using mailing lists and social media accounts that have a combined reach of roughly 70k.
There are specific questions that relate to the North Stand Development as well as a general comments field where fans were encouraged to leave feedback.

Response, Memberships and Stand Preference

1,391 people filled in the survey. Their memberships are:
  • Season Card Holder: 974 (70%)
  • Match Day Membership: 208 (15%)
  • Cityzens Membership: 132 (9%)
  • Junior Membership: 16 (1%)
  • Other/No Membership: 61 (4%)

We also asked for a Stand Breakdown. If the supporters have a season card, they were asked to select the stand they sit in. If they do not, we asked them to select the stand they prefer to sit in.
  • North Stand: 264 (19%)
  • East Stand: 246 (18%)
  • South Stand: 583 (42%)
  • Colin Bell Stand: 179 (13%)
  • No preference: 119 (9%)

Focus on Atmosphere
1894 believe that our members and the wider fanbase want to see an atmospheric home end in the North Stand.
Question 7, 86% of respondents want to see some type of vocal support in the North Stand.
Question 15, 1,156 (83%) of fans said that the ‘atmosphere’ is an important consideration in where they choose to sit at City. It was the most ‘important’ option we provided.
In Question 16, when asked how important the focus on improving the atmosphere was, 1,025 fans answered ‘5—Incredibly important’. Only 7% of respondents answered options 1 (not at all important), 2, and 3.

Fans want to move to the new North Stand

853 fans (61%) answered ‘yes, I want to be part of an atmospheric North Stand’ in Question 6. 609 (44%) would still consider moving even if they had to sit towards the back of NSL2 (Question 8).
Question 5 shows that around 97% of fans either consider themselves as singers or someone who joins in with the atmosphere occasionally. We need to give them the opportunity to sing and the atmosphere all around the stadium will snowball.

Key Issues

  • 63% of fans want to see an 18-25 section in the atmospheric North Stand
  • 87% want rail seating in the singing sections
  • 89% would like to see the club commit to a 5-year pricing plan
  • Question 13 shows fans generally want to see around 70% of any new seats offered as season cards, with the remaining tickets available to match day ticket purchases
  • Atmosphere (83%) and Ticket Pricing (71%) are the two most important factors to fans
  • 82% of fans think the GA+ seats located at the front of NSL2 in the plans should either be removed altogether or moved elsewhere. Only 5% want them to stay where they are in the plans.
Engagement with North Stand Seasoncard holders

1894 and 86% of respondents feel it’s important that the club surveys all season card holders in the current North Stand to hear their thoughts on the development.
231 season card holders in the North Stand responded to our survey. Here are some focused results from them.

  • Want to be part of an atmospheric North Stand: Yes 164 / No 49 / Unsure 17
  • Want a singing section in the North Stand: Yes 200 / No 21 / Unsure 8
  • Preference on normal seating vs rail seating: Normal 49 / Rail 162 / Unsure 22
  • Question 11: Focus atmosphere at back of NSL2 70 / Maintain focus of atmosphere across the entire stand 156 / Unsure 7
A vision for the Etihad Stadium

Fans want an atmospheric home end. This development provides the last real opportunity to achieve that. Based on the feedback that fans have provided, we believe a good vision for an atmospheric Etihad stadium is as follows:
  • North Stand Level 2 to be seen as ‘the new Kippax’ and become a designated singing section
  • North Stand Level 1 to remain as is.
  • South Stand Level 1 to remain as is.
This means that we still have a Family Stand. We have two ends generating atmosphere that can hear each other.

Commitments we’d like to see to ensure this is a success
  1. Designated 18-25s section in NSL2
  1. Rail seating in NSL2
  1. 5-year ticket pricing plan so fans are aware of costs prior to relocating
  1. At least 70% of increased capacity to be offered as new Season Cards
  1. High proportion of season card holders located in NSL2 (no tourists/agencies able to resell tickets – minimum membership history to buy tickets here)
  1. GA+ seats to be moved from the front of NSL2 and no GA+ seats to be bunched together in NSL2
  1. MCFC to survey all North Stand Level 2 season card holders about the development.

Kind Regards,
1894
 
Manchester33 said:
I know some of you who filled in 1894's survey were keen to see the results... Here's a summary:

1894 North Stand Development Survey

Introduction
1894 has been invited to attend a meeting with MCFC in July regarding the North Stand Expansion. There will be representatives from the Official Supporters Club (OSC) and City Matters (CM) present also. 1894 have created and shared a survey with City fans ahead of the meeting. The survey was shared using mailing lists and social media accounts that have a combined reach of roughly 70k.
There are specific questions that relate to the North Stand Development as well as a general comments field where fans were encouraged to leave feedback.

Response, Memberships and Stand Preference

1,391 people filled in the survey. Their memberships are:
  • Season Card Holder: 974 (70%)
  • Match Day Membership: 208 (15%)
  • Cityzens Membership: 132 (9%)
  • Junior Membership: 16 (1%)
  • Other/No Membership: 61 (4%)

We also asked for a Stand Breakdown. If the supporters have a season card, they were asked to select the stand they sit in. If they do not, we asked them to select the stand they prefer to sit in.
  • North Stand: 264 (19%)
  • East Stand: 246 (18%)
  • South Stand: 583 (42%)
  • Colin Bell Stand: 179 (13%)
  • No preference: 119 (9%)

Focus on Atmosphere
1894 believe that our members and the wider fanbase want to see an atmospheric home end in the North Stand.
Question 7, 86% of respondents want to see some type of vocal support in the North Stand.
Question 15, 1,156 (83%) of fans said that the ‘atmosphere’ is an important consideration in where they choose to sit at City. It was the most ‘important’ option we provided.
In Question 16, when asked how important the focus on improving the atmosphere was, 1,025 fans answered ‘5—Incredibly important’. Only 7% of respondents answered options 1 (not at all important), 2, and 3.

Fans want to move to the new North Stand

853 fans (61%) answered ‘yes, I want to be part of an atmospheric North Stand’ in Question 6. 609 (44%) would still consider moving even if they had to sit towards the back of NSL2 (Question 8).
Question 5 shows that around 97% of fans either consider themselves as singers or someone who joins in with the atmosphere occasionally. We need to give them the opportunity to sing and the atmosphere all around the stadium will snowball.

Key Issues

  • 63% of fans want to see an 18-25 section in the atmospheric North Stand
  • 87% want rail seating in the singing sections
  • 89% would like to see the club commit to a 5-year pricing plan
  • Question 13 shows fans generally want to see around 70% of any new seats offered as season cards, with the remaining tickets available to match day ticket purchases
  • Atmosphere (83%) and Ticket Pricing (71%) are the two most important factors to fans
  • 82% of fans think the GA+ seats located at the front of NSL2 in the plans should either be removed altogether or moved elsewhere. Only 5% want them to stay where they are in the plans.
Engagement with North Stand Seasoncard holders

1894 and 86% of respondents feel it’s important that the club surveys all season card holders in the current North Stand to hear their thoughts on the development.
231 season card holders in the North Stand responded to our survey. Here are some focused results from them.

  • Want to be part of an atmospheric North Stand: Yes 164 / No 49 / Unsure 17
  • Want a singing section in the North Stand: Yes 200 / No 21 / Unsure 8
  • Preference on normal seating vs rail seating: Normal 49 / Rail 162 / Unsure 22
  • Question 11: Focus atmosphere at back of NSL2 70 / Maintain focus of atmosphere across the entire stand 156 / Unsure 7
A vision for the Etihad Stadium

Fans want an atmospheric home end. This development provides the last real opportunity to achieve that. Based on the feedback that fans have provided, we believe a good vision for an atmospheric Etihad stadium is as follows:
  • North Stand Level 2 to be seen as ‘the new Kippax’ and become a designated singing section
  • North Stand Level 1 to remain as is.
  • South Stand Level 1 to remain as is.
This means that we still have a Family Stand. We have two ends generating atmosphere that can hear each other.

Commitments we’d like to see to ensure this is a success
  1. Designated 18-25s section in NSL2
  2. Rail seating in NSL2
  3. 5-year ticket pricing plan so fans are aware of costs prior to relocating
  4. At least 70% of increased capacity to be offered as new Season Cards
  5. High proportion of season card holders located in NSL2 (no tourists/agencies able to resell tickets – minimum membership history to buy tickets here)
  6. GA+ seats to be moved from the front of NSL2 and no GA+ seats to be bunched together in NSL2
  7. MCFC to survey all North Stand Level 2 season card holders about the development.

Kind Regards,
1894
Click to expand...

thanks for the summary.
Really hope the club listens to you in regards to your vision above and the commitments section.

(although personally I'm afraid no.6 will remain as it is... but I could live with it IF the rest goes according to your plans)
 
Dunne's own goal said:
thanks for the summary.
Really hope the club listens to you in regards to your vision above and the commitments section.

(although personally I'm afraid no.6 will remain as it is... but I could live with it IF the rest goes according to your plans)
Click to expand...
Fingers crossed they do listen. We'll keep pushing for it anyway.

I think 6 is an interesting one. We understand the club needs to see a return on investment, but there are options available:

1—Place them in an area of the stadium other than the designated singing section (e.g., ESL2/CBL2).
2—Spread the same number of corporate seats out so they are not bunched together, and regular fans are mixed in, which dilutes the impact.
3 - Offer upgrade access to the bar to everyone in NSL2 regardless of their seat. So you pay for bar access but your ticket is a normal ticket.
 
Manchester33 said:
Fingers crossed they do listen. We'll keep pushing for it anyway.

I think 6 is an interesting one. We understand the club needs to see a return on investment, but there are options available:

1—Place them in an area of the stadium other than the designated singing section (e.g., ESL2/CBL2).
2—Spread the same number of corporate seats out so they are not bunched together, and regular fans are mixed in, which dilutes the impact.
3 - Offer upgrade access to the bar to everyone in NSL2 regardless of their seat. So you pay for bar access but your ticket is a normal ticket.
Click to expand...

They’re building this premium bar so we have to be mindful that they won’t ditch the concept entirely and I think these are good alternative options for its use.

The 93:20 seats are on the side for example despite the bar being in the south stand, so option 1 is viable and has precedent.

3 would be a good option especially as it could be a tick box addition for season card holders and for match day buyers as well.

One scenario for me is to have all tier 2 safe standing and have the front bit with the bar access sold as ‘premium safe standing’. You get a great view and the extra bar but you’re in a designated standing area…

…However, I was thinking the other day that making the whole NS tier tier 2 safe standing would mean they’d have to do the corners as well so that views aren’t obstructed. That could be a sticking point as it means potentially moving more people if they don’t want to be in a standing area.
 
HelloCity said:
They’re building this premium bar so we have to be mindful that they won’t ditch the concept entirely and I think these are good alternative options for its use.

The 93:20 seats are on the side for example despite the bar being in the south stand, so option 1 is viable and has precedent.

3 would be a good option especially as it could be a tick box addition for season card holders and for match day buyers as well.

One scenario for me is to have all tier 2 safe standing and have the front bit with the bar access sold as ‘premium safe standing’. You get a great view and the extra bar but you’re in a designated standing area…

…However, I was thinking the other day that making the whole NS tier tier 2 safe standing would mean they’d have to do the corners as well so that views aren’t obstructed. That could be a sticking point as it means potentially moving more people if they don’t want to be in a standing area.
Click to expand...
You've made some great points.

You're right about the obstructed views. If there is safe standing in NSL2 it would have to start from the back and come forward.
 
Manchester33 said:
You've made some great points.

You're right about the obstructed views. If there is safe standing in NSL2 it would have to start from the back and come forward.
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I’m thinking more if it was all safe standing.

If people were standing in the front blocks it would mean people in the corners couldn’t see if they were sat down which would mean those corner blocks would have to be made standing as well.

IMG_0760.jpeg
SSL1 also covers the corners partly for this reason.
IMG_0761.jpeg
The original artist impression also highlights these blocks with the same ‘crowd’ as the whole tier…
IMG_6508.png
 
richards30 said:
I’m torn on the fans calling the club out to be honest as I completely understand us wanting a home end, blue wall etc but also the club wanting it to be financially viable and successful and making it a fan experience in that area just under level two ( I think? ) we are living the dream with our owner and what they are building is truly magnificent so I’m sure it doesn’t sit right with them either that this unique design needs to be 100% approved by the fans only? I’m definitely not looking to antagonize with this post either by the way but just because they are wealthy not everything can be decided by what fans want? This build will go past £300m as projects always do and the CO OP arena for the CFG part would be £200m ish? The investment into the club is monumental let alone if we go and spend £200-300m on new players this summer and wages etc. Ticket prices would be worth fighting about more than this imo but it could have been maybe discussed more behind closed doors before a public post has been made? Especially by our own main fan group who by the way do an amazing job every season of creating displays etc!
Click to expand...

I am not torn. How can anyone be 'torn', with nothing to go on?

Mostly, I have not seen one comment by anyone associated with 1894, that reads like they are willing to listen. Or be open minded to what the club have to say. Which in turn makes them difficult to seem like their statementns can be trusted.

It all reads like they made up their mind over a year ago, have stucknwith that and only that, and maybe the club have given them nothing at all to change that, but I don't think they want to change it anyway.

So it becomes easy to point the finger at the club and make big claims, but I honestly can not tell how much truth is in that, if any at all. Till the club come out with sonething at least.

Either way I think their call for a wider consultation is a great idea and I support that.

Have a 'proper' consultation, for a proper home end with proper atmosphere.
 
Coatigan said:
I am not torn. How can anyone be 'torn', with nothing to go on?

Mostly, I have not seen one comment by anyone associated with 1894, that reads like they are willing to listen. Or be open minded to what the club have to say. Which in turn makes them difficult to seem like their statementns can be trusted.

It all reads like they made up their mind over a year ago, have stucknwith that and only that, and maybe the club have given them nothing at all to change that, but I don't think they want to change it anyway.

So it becomes easy to point the finger at the club and make big claims, but I honestly can not tell how much truth is in that, if any at all. Till the club come out with sonething at least.

Either way I think their call for a wider consultation is a great idea and I support that.

Have a 'proper' consultation, for a proper home end with proper atmosphere.
Click to expand...

They had a meeting with the club a few weeks back and were made aware of the current plans.

I’m not sure what ‘open minded’ means in this situation as quite clearly the best course of action is to push back so we don’t end up with the exact tier 2 we have now, plus premium seats, and then the expansion which would just become another general area.
 
Coatigan said:
I am not torn. How can anyone be 'torn', with nothing to go on?

Mostly, I have not seen one comment by anyone associated with 1894, that reads like they are willing to listen. Or be open minded to what the club have to say. Which in turn makes them difficult to seem like their statementns can be trusted.

It all reads like they made up their mind over a year ago, have stucknwith that and only that, and maybe the club have given them nothing at all to change that, but I don't think they want to change it anyway.

So it becomes easy to point the finger at the club and make big claims, but I honestly can not tell how much truth is in that, if any at all. Till the club come out with sonething at least.

Either way I think their call for a wider consultation is a great idea and I support that.

Have a 'proper' consultation, for a proper home end with proper atmosphere.
Click to expand...

On the contrary.

When people don’t know what’s going on in the background they shouldn’t judge or surmise.

One sides preference is revenue. The other sides preference is atmosphere.

One side will ultimately win, they were always going to win. But it’s what they offer, if anything at all?

Without knowing, do I feel optimistic, no I don’t.
 
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jrb said:
On the contrary.

When people don’t know what’s going on in the background they shouldn’t judge or surmise.

One sides preference is revenue. The other sides preference is atmosphere.

Once side will ultimately win, they were always going to win. But it’s what they offer, if anything at all?

Without knowing, do I feel optimistic, no I don’t.
Click to expand...
We need revenue but not at the expense of an atmosphere, CFG has done amazing with most of the projects they have done but the stadium lacks an atmosphere and needs an atmosphere to become the 12th man.

1894 is spot on with their information and well done at @Manchester33 for his post with the breakdown.

Why are these nameless execs at City being allowed to overrule what the chairman, Pep and the vast majority of fans want an atmospheric home end?

You just need to see our Champions League final to see what the atmospheric home end can do and the Euros just now where the fans have been amazing with their atmosphere
 
jrb said:
On the contrary.

When people don’t know what’s going on in the background they shouldn’t judge or surmise.

One sides preference is revenue. The other sides preference is atmosphere.

One side will ultimately win, they were always going to win. But it’s what they offer, if anything at all?

Without knowing, do I feel optimistic, no I don’t.
Click to expand...

I would be inclined to believe that, if, that wasnt the unwavering stance from day one.

I'm sorry, but all I see so far is a crusade for the sake of one. Whether it has any any merit, or raison d'etre, can't know. I can only go off what they say though.

HelloCity said:
They had a meeting with the club a few weeks back and were made aware of the current plans.

I’m not sure what ‘open minded’ means in this situation as quite clearly the best course of action is to push back so we don’t end up with the exact tier 2 we have now, plus premium seats, and then the expansion which would just become another general area.
Click to expand...

Yes, the meeting they couldn't talk about, after a survey that 'yielded' exactly what they started out claiming, and arguing, that is now being turned into a 'fans vs club' division.

I'm sorry. I don't like it one bit. And I feel there is nothing bad in saying that.
 
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