Obama

west didsblue said:
You could always try Google.
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I have done that long ago and read extensively on many subject including for example both the tragedies in the Balkans and Rwanda and have a decent knowledge of most middle east conflicts past and present. Despite this I am far from arrogant and have no delusions of being some kind of highly intelligent genius.

Were I too feel strongly enough to respond to someones post effectively telling them they were talking out of their arse I would consider it reasonable to point out why that was my conclusion.

I would actually think under the circumstances and given the claims I was making of having superior knowledge on the matter to then simply refer the poster with whom I was engaging to google may make me seem at best a little arrogant or at worst unable to back up my initial disagreement which could well make me look like a bit of a wally.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
It's amazing that people who consider themselves so well read can write such ridiculous sentences.
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Why ridiculous? I do not have much time for Trump nor did I for Obama. Like it or not both have done good and bad things, only one of them seems to be condemned out of hand no matter what. I actually think Obama would have done a better job managing Coronavirus in the States, but then he could not have done much worse could he.
 
purplenose said:
Why ridiculous? I do not have much time for Trump nor did I for Obama. Like it or not both have done good and bad things, only one of them seems to be condemned out of hand no matter what. I actually think Obama would have done a better job managing Coronavirus in the States, but then he could not have done much worse could he.
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And why do you think Donald Trump is "condemned out of hand"? Besides everyone wanting to be with "the in crowd" I mean?

Yeah, yeah . . . you don't like Trump, Obama, Nixon, Reagan, either Clinton -- who's your guy, Millard Fillmore?
 
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FogBlueInSanFran said:
And why do you think Donald Trump is "condemned out of hand"? Besides everyone wanting to be with "the in crowd" I mean?

Yeah, yeah . . . you don't like Trump, Obama, Nixon, Reagan, either Clinton -- who's your guy, Millard Fillmore?
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In the UK he is condemned out of hand by everyone who is considered left. Labour Voters, Remainers and so on.

You live in the States, maybe even Yank? I would not claim to be able to to speak with any credible authority about an American president comparably to someone who lives in the US and therefore is much more directly effected by the actions of the president. Though of course most nations and people across the globe are to some degree.

My own favourite president would probably be Bush "mk1" but again I form that opinion from afar and accept in doing so it is likely to be less credible than someone who is in the states.

Your tone suggests you are looking for a fight and are unable to disagree in a civil and polite manner.
 
purplenose said:
In the UK he is condemned out of hand by everyone who is considered left. Labour Voters, Remainers and so on.

You live in the States, maybe even Yank? I would not claim to be able to to speak with any credible authority about an American president comparably to someone who lives in the US and therefore is much more directly effected by the actions of the president. Though of course most nations and people across the globe are to some degree.

My own favourite president would probably be Bush "mk1" but again I form that opinion from afar and accept in doing so it is likely to be less credible than someone who is in the states.

Your tone suggests you are looking for a fight and are unable to disagree in a civil and polite manner.
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He is condemned out of hand by anyone that believes in the rule of law.
 
purplenose said:
In the UK he is condemned out of hand by everyone who is considered left. Labour Voters, Remainers and so on.

You live in the States, maybe even Yank? I would not claim to be able to to speak with any credible authority about an American president comparably to someone who lives in the US and therefore is much more directly effected by the actions of the president. Though of course most nations and people across the globe are to some degree.

My own favourite president would probably be Bush "mk1" but again I form that opinion from afar and accept in doing so it is likely to be less credible than someone who is in the states.

Your tone suggests you are looking for a fight and are unable to disagree in a civil and polite manner.
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My tone is brought about because I dislike thoughtless, uninformed generalizations like "I will however not leap upon the left leaning band waggon and condemn out of hand everything he does purely to be in with the crowd."

You don't have to be left or right, from the States or anywhere else, to want to condemn amorality, stupidity, lack of experience and preparation, self-serving, a laughable-were-it-not appalling lack of honesty and those utterly devoid of empathy. Which he's demonstrated for 30+ years of his public life by the way.

You aren't friends with nor related to anyone like this I reckon.

If you can't see those traits and condemn them in Trump, and excuse them with some insipid rationalization like "well, la de da, everyone does good things and bad things, herp de derp", then there's either an intellectual or moral defect you should have resolved.

This isn't political. This is about traits that underlie leadership or lack thereof. To believe they don't matter is to espouse the philosophy that the ends justify the means. Maybe that is what you believe. And if it is, then, yeah, we disagree, and don't expect me to be civil about it.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
My tone is brought about because I dislike thoughtless, uninformed generalizations like "I will however not leap upon the left leaning band waggon and condemn out of hand everything he does purely to be in with the crowd."

You don't have to be left or right, from the States or anywhere else, to want to condemn amorality, stupidity, lack of experience and preparation, self-serving, a laughable-were-it-not appalling lack of honesty and those utterly devoid of empathy.

You aren't friends with nor related to anyone like this I reckon.

If you can't see those traits and condemn them in Trump, and excuse them with some insipid rationalization like "well, la de da, everyone does good things and bad things, herp de derp", then there's either an intellectual or moral defect you should have resolved.

This isn't political. This is about traits that underlie leadership or lack thereof. To believe they don't matter is to espouse the philosophy that the ends justify the means. Maybe that is what you believe. And if it is, then, yeah, we disagree, and don't expect me to be civil about it.
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Really fine post mate. Agree with every word and most of them could also be applied to our own PM.
Out of interest, what was your view of Obama? Both as an individual and his Presidential legacy?
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
My tone is brought about because I dislike thoughtless, uninformed generalizations like "I will however not leap upon the left leaning band waggon and condemn out of hand everything he does purely to be in with the crowd."

You don't have to be left or right, from the States or anywhere else, to want to condemn amorality, stupidity, lack of experience and preparation, self-serving, a laughable-were-it-not appalling lack of honesty and those utterly devoid of empathy. Which he's demonstrated for 30+ years of his public life by the way.

You aren't friends with nor related to anyone like this I reckon.

If you can't see those traits and condemn them in Trump, and excuse them with some insipid rationalization like "well, la de da, everyone does good things and bad things, herp de derp", then there's either an intellectual or moral defect you should have resolved.

This isn't political. This is about traits that underlie leadership or lack thereof. To believe they don't matter is to espouse the philosophy that the ends justify the means. Maybe that is what you believe. And if it is, then, yeah, we disagree, and don't expect me to be civil about it.
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I actually agree with much of what you have said. I have not expressed a like or preference for Donald Trump or what he is and many of the things he has done.

I am neither left nor right as a result am accused by both of being both.....using American speak, Go Figure.

If you cannot be civil when discussing these matters then you are frankly rather more like Donald Trump than Barack Obama that I will gladly give you. Which of course is quite ironic.

When you talk about traits then I would suggest that there are few if any politicians have the traits you value or at least none that are more than skin deep. If this were not the case I am very sorry to say they would be very unlikely to make much impact in politics either side of the atlantic.

Just to some that up in a few choice words of Kippax speak in my humble opinion they are pretty much all a bunch of cunts.
 
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