Longsight-memories said:Martin McGuinness/ Gerry Adams 100s of british deathsbluemoonmatt said:Depends on your'e viewpoint Damo, to be fair your'e very quick to dismiss some comments (the trial one earlier for example, labelling it a kangaroo court) if it doesn't suit you're very obvious agenda of anger at the US so it kinda works both ways.
I personally have to say that I'm incredibly dismayed at the amount of people who seem to think OBL had any rights. He has received justice, albeit of the summary nature but I'll bet the majority of people who lost loved ones during any of his crews atrocities care not a jot about that. He is a mass murderer and inciter of hatred and bad feeling. When all said and done his message was becoming less relevant to the arabs of the middle east and beyond, for whom it seems seek a more democratic form of governance over the sharia type law Al Q appear to favour, so the effect of this is not as significant as it would have been 5 years ago, but nevertheless, the world is a slightly better place without scum like that in it. So if that makes me a hypocrite so be it. However, I know I can look at the world objectively, realistically and with little naivety.
Robert Mugabe 100s of deaths
Menachem Begin 100s of BRITISH deaths
Nassar.. the list could go on and on.. all have killed and we end up having a chat with them..not dancing on their graves..strange world
BoyBlue_1985 said:See one of your main problems Damo is that when someone disagrees with your view they are immidiatly wrong and listen to the media too much.
It's far too easy to dismiss your enemies as evil and twisted
Damocles said:BoyBlue_1985 said:See one of your main problems Damo is that when someone disagrees with your view they are immidiatly wrong and listen to the media too much.
Actually, my problem is with people who do listen to any forms of information and don't immediately question the merits of it; whether that be scientific papers or news reports. I also have a problem with people who seem to believe that the world is an incredibly simple place, or with those who will flip their own morality when it gets difficult to keep hold of.
The Islamic terrorism question is a huge ranging subject and it's in the interest of governments to present it to us in a certain way. Nobody ever humanises the enemy any more; they are all just people "over there" who are evil, wrong, bad, insane people who want to kill you, your family and your "freedom". Point is, this is utter bollocks, they are people with jobs, families, wants, beliefs, needs, desires, no different from you and I. They are driven to commit these acts by whatever extreme provocation has caused this inside of them. Painting them all as insane radicals is just incorrect and massively oversimplifies things. There's a sliver of argument here that smacks of people thinking that they are "better" or somehow "above" these people. You aren't. I'm not. We're all the same; some of us are murderous and insane individuals, most of us aren't. Some of them are murderous, insane individuals, most of them aren't.
If you do accept this (which I personally do), then you have to start wondering what would make so many people turn to such a violent act. Thus begins the rabbit hole, and you start to see all sides of the campaign instead of just the one that is presented to you on a platter. I'd very much like people to understand that the people who are been slaughtered, on all sides of this conflict, are generally normal people driven to horrible acts.
Bin Laden, from my reading of him anyway, seemed to really believe in his idea of Islam and his methods to achieve it but he certainly wasn't just some daft crazy bastard who sat in a cave all his life. He's no different to some people here - he gave up his personal morality because he thought it was for the greater good.
It's far too easy to dismiss your enemies as evil and twisted, even Sun Tzu knew that the only way to beat them is to understand them. Dismissing them is a cop out.
Damocles said:BoyBlue_1985 said:See one of your main problems Damo is that when someone disagrees with your view they are immidiatly wrong and listen to the media too much.
Actually, my problem is with people who do listen to any forms of information and don't immediately question the merits of it; whether that be scientific papers or news reports. I also have a problem with people who seem to believe that the world is an incredibly simple place, or with those who will flip their own morality when it gets difficult to keep hold of.
The Islamic terrorism question is a huge ranging subject and it's in the interest of governments to present it to us in a certain way. Nobody ever humanises the enemy any more; they are all just people "over there" who are evil, wrong, bad, insane people who want to kill you, your family and your "freedom". Point is, this is utter bollocks, they are people with jobs, families, wants, beliefs, needs, desires, no different from you and I. They are driven to commit these acts by whatever extreme provocation has caused this inside of them. Painting them all as insane radicals is just incorrect and massively oversimplifies things. There's a sliver of argument here that smacks of people thinking that they are "better" or somehow "above" these people. You aren't. I'm not. We're all the same; some of us are murderous and insane individuals, most of us aren't. Some of them are murderous, insane individuals, most of them aren't.
If you do accept this (which I personally do), then you have to start wondering what would make so many people turn to such a violent act. Thus begins the rabbit hole, and you start to see all sides of the campaign instead of just the one that is presented to you on a platter. I'd very much like people to understand that the people who are been slaughtered, on all sides of this conflict, are generally normal people driven to horrible acts.
Bin Laden, from my reading of him anyway, seemed to really believe in his idea of Islam and his methods to achieve it but he certainly wasn't just some daft crazy bastard who sat in a cave all his life. He's no different to some people here - he gave up his personal morality because he thought it was for the greater good.
It's far too easy to dismiss your enemies as evil and twisted, even Sun Tzu knew that the only way to beat them is to understand them. Dismissing them is a cop out.
Longsight-memories said:Ducado said:It strikes me that the people most dismayed by this news are Islamist fascists, Leftist appeasers of said fascism and Tea Party nutters watching their 2012 US election hopes vanishing!
Anyway good article from Robert Fisk
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-was-he-betrayed-of-course-pakistan-knew-bin-ladens-hiding-place-all-along-2278028.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co ... 78028.html</a>
think its the timing.. they knew about the house since August..
fall in the polls lets get him.. (dont clash with the wedding though) bring out the brass band... YES WE CAN YES WE CAN blah blah blah..
Now the next time anyone chops off someones head on the telly... what can we say (the west) yeah but the most powerfull man in the world watches snuff videos so shut up..
20sbc07 said:He's not dead.
The 1 picture they had of him was a fake (http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/787/binfake.jpg) and they just happened to throw the body in the sea so there can't be any other pictures.
I call bullshit.
20sbc07 said:He's not dead.
The 1 picture they had of him was a fake (http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/787/binfake.jpg) and they just happened to throw the body in the sea so there can't be any other pictures.
I call bullshit.