I should think the bail hearing story changing things will play on peoples minds though. The unfortunate thing when these things are played out in public.The cookie monster said:bluetrue said:didactic said:Still confirms that there was an argument and that the light was on when Oscar said it was off. Is also not the only witness.
The policeman did not cover his shoes that is hardly going to change much as the bullets and blood samples were taken correctly.
They checked if a call had been made and it was made after calls to other parties were made. Still waiting for more evidence from telephone companies as to who called as of all the 2 mobile phones found none had called the paramedics.
The defense is claiming that the testosterone is a herbal remedy this has not been confirmed by any medical doctor and the story of steroids and drugs being found did not come from the prosecution. This has no bearing on the murder case more on the credibility of Oscar as an athlete.
Here is where it gets bad for ol boy it has been confirmed that he accidentally fired a loaded gun in crowded restaurant and made someone else take the blame. He threatened another man and said he would "break his legs" over a woman he had been dating for a few months. He had a case of abuse against him dropped by a woman in 2009. Another witness has said she heard the couple fight non stop for an hour before the shooting. The bullets used and several others found were all unlicensed a crime which has been added to his sheet. More evidence including forensic is to be released as well as other witness testimony. Finally the holster for the gun was found on the side his girlfriend slept not on his side with the prosecution arguing that if it was on her side he took out his gun knowing she was in bed as it would have been impossible to miss her presence/absence while retrieving the firearm.
Also more evidence is coming.
1) Doesn't confirm there was an argument, could have been anybody shouting.
2) Shows mistakes in how police handled the investigation.
3) Failed to look for other mobile phones and not one officer thought to phone the ambulance service to ask if a phonecall had been made.
4) The officer claimed that it was testosterone before admitting "I didn't read all of the label" Again shows poor investigations.
5) No further evidence was taken after the accidental firing of a weapon.
6) How can you say 'more evidence is to be released including forensics' when the forensics haven't been completed. You are basically saying 'There is more evidence coming that will prove him guilty anyway.'
So I feel that the prosecution's case is very shaky. He also claimed all the bullets were fired from within the bathroom, which has proven not to be the case, as there was bullet casing in the corridor leading to the bathroom.
I am also concerned as to the witness who lived 600m away suddenly only lived 300m away when they reconvened after a break.
I have not yet made my mind up[/color], however I feel the investigation was being run by a very amateur detective, who failed to carry out simple fact finding. He was torn to shreds by the defence today and it looks as if bail is likely.
According to sky 20 mins ago the reporter said bail had gone from not much chance to hopefull at best.
-- Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:02 pm --
BoyBlue_1985 said:I watched that today the prosecution couldn't string a fucking sentence together without making themselves look stupid the investigating officer has just come out of clown college and the "eye" witnesses might as well of been on the moon. Im not defending and if he is guilty fuck him but with that pile of shite prosecution I could murder the judge in front of the media and walk out on a technicalitydidactic said:There is a lot of information that has come out and the prosecutions case seems very, very solid. Add the witness testimony then I have a right to come to my conclusion. I remember you were defending Lance Armstrong too these celebs are not saints.
It is only a bail hearing though
Am sure they will get their act together come the trial.
bluetrue said:didactic said:bluetrue said:Too many to name. But a few:
'Witness' hearing screaming, who turns out to be 300m-600m away and couldn't confirm who was screaming.
Contamination of crime scene.
Failure to check if a phone call had been made to paramedics.
Failure to check on the 'testosterone' or read the full label.
Still confirms that there was an argument and that the light was on when Oscar said it was off. Is also not the only witness.
The policeman did not cover his shoes that is hardly going to change much as the bullets and blood samples were taken correctly.
They checked if a call had been made and it was made after calls to other parties were made. Still waiting for more evidence from telephone companies as to who called as of all the 2 mobile phones found none had called the paramedics.
The defense is claiming that the testosterone is a herbal remedy this has not been confirmed by any medical doctor and the story of steroids and drugs being found did not come from the prosecution. This has no bearing on the murder case more on the credibility of Oscar as an athlete.
Here is where it gets bad for ol boy it has been confirmed that he accidentally fired a loaded gun in crowded restaurant and made someone else take the blame. He threatened another man and said he would "break his legs" over a woman he had been dating for a few months. He had a case of abuse against him dropped by a woman in 2009. Another witness has said she heard the couple fight non stop for an hour before the shooting. The bullets used and several others found were all unlicensed a crime which has been added to his sheet. More evidence including forensic is to be released as well as other witness testimony. Finally the holster for the gun was found on the side his girlfriend slept not on his side with the prosecution arguing that if it was on her side he took out his gun knowing she was in bed as it would have been impossible to miss her presence/absence while retrieving the firearm.
Also more evidence is coming.
1) Doesn't confirm there was an argument, could have been anybody shouting.
2) Shows mistakes in how police handled the investigation.
3) Failed to look for other mobile phones and not one officer thought to phone the ambulance service to ask if a phonecall had been made.
4) The officer claimed that it was testosterone before admitting "I didn't read all of the label" Again shows poor investigations.
5) No further evidence was taken after the accidental firing of a weapon.
6) How can you say 'more evidence is to be released including forensics' when the forensics haven't been completed. You are basically saying 'There is more evidence coming that will prove him guilty anyway.'
So I feel that the prosecution's case is very shaky. He also claimed all the bullets were fired from within the bathroom, which has proven not to be the case, as there was bullet casing in the corridor leading to the bathroom.
I am also concerned as to the witness who lived 600m away suddenly only lived 300m away when they reconvened after a break.
I have not yet made my mind up, however I feel the investigation was being run by a very amateur detective, who failed to carry out simple fact finding. He was torn to shreds by the defence today and it looks as if bail is likely.
I should think the bail hearing story changing things will play on peoples minds though. The unfortunate thing when these things are played out in public.BoyBlue_1985 said:It is only a bail hearing though
Am sure they will get their act together come the trial.
If he was to leave, it wouldn't be a BA charter flight.bluetrue said:The Flash said:From what I've heard, it's very rare to get bail on a schedule 6 offence (which pre-meditated murder is) in SA and those that do have to surrender their passport, are restricted to only certain areas in their home town and have to wear a tag.
Although it wouldn't surprsie me if Pistorious isn't, by now, fully aware of all the countries which DON'T currently have an extradition treaty with SA.
From what I understand, bail is now looking very likely. I feel he'd struggle to leave the country to be honest. Too recognisable.
-
didactic said:bluetrue said:didactic said:Still confirms that there was an argument and that the light was on when Oscar said it was off. Is also not the only witness.
The policeman did not cover his shoes that is hardly going to change much as the bullets and blood samples were taken correctly.
They checked if a call had been made and it was made after calls to other parties were made. Still waiting for more evidence from telephone companies as to who called as of all the 2 mobile phones found none had called the paramedics.
The defense is claiming that the testosterone is a herbal remedy this has not been confirmed by any medical doctor and the story of steroids and drugs being found did not come from the prosecution. This has no bearing on the murder case more on the credibility of Oscar as an athlete.
Here is where it gets bad for ol boy it has been confirmed that he accidentally fired a loaded gun in crowded restaurant and made someone else take the blame. He threatened another man and said he would "break his legs" over a woman he had been dating for a few months. He had a case of abuse against him dropped by a woman in 2009. Another witness has said she heard the couple fight non stop for an hour before the shooting. The bullets used and several others found were all unlicensed a crime which has been added to his sheet. More evidence including forensic is to be released as well as other witness testimony. Finally the holster for the gun was found on the side his girlfriend slept not on his side with the prosecution arguing that if it was on her side he took out his gun knowing she was in bed as it would have been impossible to miss her presence/absence while retrieving the firearm.
Also more evidence is coming.
1) Doesn't confirm there was an argument, could have been anybody shouting.
2) Shows mistakes in how police handled the investigation.
3) Failed to look for other mobile phones and not one officer thought to phone the ambulance service to ask if a phonecall had been made.
4) The officer claimed that it was testosterone before admitting "I didn't read all of the label" Again shows poor investigations.
5) No further evidence was taken after the accidental firing of a weapon.
6) How can you say 'more evidence is to be released including forensics' when the forensics haven't been completed. You are basically saying 'There is more evidence coming that will prove him guilty anyway.'
So I feel that the prosecution's case is very shaky. He also claimed all the bullets were fired from within the bathroom, which has proven not to be the case, as there was bullet casing in the corridor leading to the bathroom.
I am also concerned as to the witness who lived 600m away suddenly only lived 300m away when they reconvened after a break.
I have not yet made my mind up, however I feel the investigation was being run by a very amateur detective, who failed to carry out simple fact finding. He was torn to shreds by the defence today and it looks as if bail is likely.
1. South Africa is not like England houses are not on top of each other especially in the rich areas you have massive spaces between houses. The voices that were heard by multiple witnesses were coming from Oscars house not any where else. There were only two people in the house by all confirmed reports. So who else could have been arguing? Look at the plans of the housing complex to understand better.
2. A mistake there is no single investigation where a mistake is not made it is not reason enough for the case to be thrown out. This is not CSI no America where a jury can decide that a scene was contaminated so the defendant cannot get a fair trail. SA has a judge make all the decisions. One person and he has already decided that he wants to hear more and has not granted bail which was supposed to happen in two days.
3. You do not call the ambulance service to ask if a call was made. You check the phones you find and then check with telephone companies which is being done. This is all a bail hearing not the actual case.
4. It has not been proven to not be testorone and again go back to point 2 a single judge decides not a jury. This is not a case of let me show how incompetent this person is but rather let me prove my innocence.
5. How could they take evidence when another party took responsibility and no charges were being pressed? What matters is it shows Oscar has a love for guns and is willing to recklessly use them even in public.
6. I am saying the police and prosecution have said that they have more evidence that strengthens their case. Do you think these are stupid people? They have gone for premeditated murder for a reason not just because it sounds good. Its harder to prove by they are confident they can. Watch this space.
-- Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:18 pm --
I should think the bail hearing story changing things will play on peoples minds though. The unfortunate thing when these things are played out in public.BoyBlue_1985 said:It is only a bail hearing though
Am sure they will get their act together come the trial.
When we get actual evidence rather than dids special he is guilty because I say so we will all know. If he is lying about certain things he will be found out in a matter of days
bluetrue said:The 'witness' could only confirm she heard Oscar's voice.
I have absolutely no doubt that Oscar shot her, that much is obvious, I'm not expecting it to be thrown out of court. Just lessened to manslaughter. I do, however, think that the investigating officer jumped the gun (excuse the phrase) in going for premeditated murder, because this is what he wanted it to be.
Anyway, time will tell!
didactic said:bluetrue said:didactic said:Still confirms that there was an argument and that the light was on when Oscar said it was off. Is also not the only witness.
The policeman did not cover his shoes that is hardly going to change much as the bullets and blood samples were taken correctly.
They checked if a call had been made and it was made after calls to other parties were made. Still waiting for more evidence from telephone companies as to who called as of all the 2 mobile phones found none had called the paramedics.
The defense is claiming that the testosterone is a herbal remedy this has not been confirmed by any medical doctor and the story of steroids and drugs being found did not come from the prosecution. This has no bearing on the murder case more on the credibility of Oscar as an athlete.
Here is where it gets bad for ol boy it has been confirmed that he accidentally fired a loaded gun in crowded restaurant and made someone else take the blame. He threatened another man and said he would "break his legs" over a woman he had been dating for a few months. He had a case of abuse against him dropped by a woman in 2009. Another witness has said she heard the couple fight non stop for an hour before the shooting. The bullets used and several others found were all unlicensed a crime which has been added to his sheet. More evidence including forensic is to be released as well as other witness testimony. Finally the holster for the gun was found on the side his girlfriend slept not on his side with the prosecution arguing that if it was on her side he took out his gun knowing she was in bed as it would have been impossible to miss her presence/absence while retrieving the firearm.
Also more evidence is coming.
1) Doesn't confirm there was an argument, could have been anybody shouting.
2) Shows mistakes in how police handled the investigation.
3) Failed to look for other mobile phones and not one officer thought to phone the ambulance service to ask if a phonecall had been made.
4) The officer claimed that it was testosterone before admitting "I didn't read all of the label" Again shows poor investigations.
5) No further evidence was taken after the accidental firing of a weapon.
6) How can you say 'more evidence is to be released including forensics' when the forensics haven't been completed. You are basically saying 'There is more evidence coming that will prove him guilty anyway.'
So I feel that the prosecution's case is very shaky. He also claimed all the bullets were fired from within the bathroom, which has proven not to be the case, as there was bullet casing in the corridor leading to the bathroom.
I am also concerned as to the witness who lived 600m away suddenly only lived 300m away when they reconvened after a break.
I have not yet made my mind up, however I feel the investigation was being run by a very amateur detective, who failed to carry out simple fact finding. He was torn to shreds by the defence today and it looks as if bail is likely.
1. South Africa is not like England houses are not on top of each other especially in the rich areas you have massive spaces between houses. The voices that were heard by multiple witnesses were coming from Oscars house not any where else. There were only two people in the house by all confirmed reports. So who else could have been arguing? Look at the plans of the housing complex to understand better.
2. A mistake there is no single investigation where a mistake is not made it is not reason enough for the case to be thrown out. This is not CSI no America where a jury can decide that a scene was contaminated so the defendant cannot get a fair trail. SA has a judge make all the decisions. One person and he has already decided that he wants to hear more and has not granted bail which was supposed to happen in two days.
3. You do not call the ambulance service to ask if a call was made. You check the phones you find and then check with telephone companies which is being done. This is all a bail hearing not the actual case.
4. It has not been proven to not be testorone and again go back to point 2 a single judge decides not a jury. This is not a case of let me show how incompetent this person is but rather let me prove my innocence.
5. How could they take evidence when another party took responsibility and no charges were being pressed? What matters is it shows Oscar has a love for guns and is willing to recklessly use them even in public.
6. I am saying the police and prosecution have said that they have more evidence that strengthens their case. Do you think these are stupid people? They have gone for premeditated murder for a reason not just because it sounds good. Its harder to prove by they are confident they can. Watch this space.
-- Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:18 pm --
I should think the bail hearing story changing things will play on peoples minds though. The unfortunate thing when these things are played out in public.BoyBlue_1985 said:It is only a bail hearing though
Am sure they will get their act together come the trial.
When we get actual evidence rather than dids special he is guilty because I say so we will all know. If he is lying about certain things he will be found out in a matter of days
BoyBlue_1985 said:Just to clear this up taking performance enhancing drugs and killing a human being are so wide apart on the moral spectrum its stupid to keep using them together as a stick to beat me with
Fact is I have always disliked Pistorius and his blinding arrogance and even more after London when he came across as a classless buffon but without evidence you are just using views from limited information to make him guilty. The question isn't did he shoot her, thats fucking obvious and admitted already but did he mean it and until all evidence is out or you were standing in the room watching you just dont know
didactic said:BoyBlue_1985 said:Just to clear this up taking performance enhancing drugs and killing a human being are so wide apart on the moral spectrum its stupid to keep using them together as a stick to beat me with
Fact is I have always disliked Pistorius and his blinding arrogance and even more after London when he came across as a classless buffon but without evidence you are just using views from limited information to make him guilty. The question isn't did he shoot her, thats fucking obvious and admitted already but did he mean it and until all evidence is out or you were standing in the room watching you just dont know
I hate Armstrong and hope he gets done for witness tampering.
BoyBlue_1985 said:didactic said:BoyBlue_1985 said:Just to clear this up taking performance enhancing drugs and killing a human being are so wide apart on the moral spectrum its stupid to keep using them together as a stick to beat me with
Fact is I have always disliked Pistorius and his blinding arrogance and even more after London when he came across as a classless buffon but without evidence you are just using views from limited information to make him guilty. The question isn't did he shoot her, thats fucking obvious and admitted already but did he mean it and until all evidence is out or you were standing in the room watching you just dont know
I hate Armstrong and hope he gets done for witness tampering.
Okay that was an odd thing to come back with.
In the good old USA though I think he is safe because he is worth bazillions. See how desperate Nike are to get the sponsorship money back, some people might think they were involved