Our attack - what's off?

Watch the highlights of our 3-1 win vs spuds at Wembley with Sterling/Sane/Jesus/Silva. We ripped them apart with two simple things. Pace and width
 
We look clueless right now, getting hard to look at the table with us in 13th and now below Penchester Utd. Why doesn't Pep give Foden full games, the lad is the only real creative spark currently and has to be given a go over Mahrez surely?
 
i was thinking last night after the loss and thought how many goals are in this team this season ?
sterling golden patch maybe over aguero injury hit ? jesus injury hit ? KDB form is shot and mahrez well ?

over the last 4 season most of the forward line and midfield had goals of 10 plus and scored for fun. now am looking and thinking where are the goals ? do we get in the box enough to create chances ? why are we so focus in getting down the wings and looking to go round the back of the defences

the little pass at the edge of the box and looking for the 1/2 or the give and go ball has gone
we are look for a killer pass by KDB from 40 yards out wide ? the magic of david silva is a big big loss. we are looking far to much and banking on KDB to step up and find that killer pass or wonder goal. but sadly kevin of so out of salts and his form is shot to bits its painful watching right now

something is missing and not right ? you don't become a shit team over night. but this season is so chalk and cheese and we don't look like scoring 2 or 3 goals. in fact we look so scared to shoot and we are trying to walk the ball in

pep needs a plan B or C and the premier league teams has worked us out and they know you keep us out for 20 to 30 minutes then the panic starts and we lose our shape and then cough up a goal ? am hating myself for saying this but the need for a big and good in the air striker is needed. something different to use and getting the ball in the box for the big man to fight for ? even if he does not win the ball the 2nd ball in the box when it drops sends panic into defences
 
I don’t think it’s that we need a plan b or c as such, it’s that our plan a has changed from two seasons ago and neither the shape nor the players in it are as good as they used to be.

The issue from it is lack of variety in general.
 
I think one could classify the decision to look for a larger sized no. 6 stemmed from our lack of strength and mistakes at centre half with Otamendi and Stones impacting everything, creating a sense of panic, "Why is this not working?"

Rodri is, yes, Busquets-lite and is what we had hoped he will be, but the truth is also the game has changed. I think for International football Rodi will be a massive success, or in a slower side not focused on high tempo games, even though he can move the ball quickly with deft touches, his recovery pace and size I wonder how one can tactically determine with who we have.

He wasn't even poor at all yesterday, but Fernandinho was everpresent and vital to counter attacks and stopping them.

Look at Spurs yesterday.

They have Ndombele as their no 6 now.

Mourhino previously used much slower more positional no. 6's like Matic and Mikel.

At RM he had Khadira.

At United he went for Fred, used Fellani for similar reasons, although Fred was to be more of a Fernandinho box to box type player.

Kante came to Chelsea after he was gone, but our fans I have constantly read are in love with him but he's not technically good enough if you put things together correctly, IMHO.

In Ndombele he now gets more of that and is a factor for Spurs to get what Mourhino wants in the modern game.

More pace and more technical ability to go along with the changes with pressing and fitness.

Last season Ndombele, we saw from the Amazon documentary that he struggled adapting. He is improving and actually WE PERHAPS SHOULD HAVE SIGNED HIM IF YOU ASK ME WHEN TXIKI TARGETD JORGINHO.

Pep tried hard to bring technical football to England. It worked in many ways, revolutionising the game in England, but Klopp's gegenpress revealed the technical pressing possession system's failings against certain tactics that initially other managers had not discovered.

Years in more and more clubs have figured this out and other factors have undermined growth not mentioned here.

Pep and Txiki arguably have over-reacted to these tactical struggles, hoping to address them signing Rodri, and now we are where we are.

TBF, the issues at Left back are a factor as well because if we had the Mendy we first signed I think we'd be THAT much better.
 
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Our defense. Opposition teams play 11 man defense behind the ball. Which other team has to contend with this mass defense ?

Its been proved successful, if they counter attack with pace when our wingback are caught deep in the opponents half .

Every time a team catch us on the counter it proves that system against us works.

Pep likes possession the opposition fall back condensing their defense in front of their goal. We try to play through the defense and takes shots when there are as many as 21 players in the congested penalty area.

Teams catch us on the break because our pigeon catcher gets caught up field quite often. The same pigeon catcher who has limited effect going forward.

The problem is there for Pep to solve. He hasn`t solved it in the last 47 league games and IMO the problem is getting worse not better.

We have the same problem in the CL.
 
PrezIke said:
I think one could classify the decision to look for a larger sized no. 6 stemmed from our lack of strength and mistakes at centre half with Otamendi and Stones impacting everything, creating a sense of panic, "Why is this not working?"

Rodri is, yes, Busquets-lite and is what we had hoped he will be, but the truth is also the game has changed. I think for International football Rodi will be a massive success, or in a slower side not focused on high tempo games, even though he can move the ball quickly with deft touches, his recovery pace and size I wonder how one can tactically determine with who we have.

He wasn't even poor at all yesterday, but Fernandinho was everpresent and vital to counter attacks and stopping them.

Look at Spurs yesterday.

They have Ndombele as their no 6 now.

Mourhino previously used much slower more positional no. 6's like Matic and Mikel.

At RM he had Khadira.

At United he went for Fred, used Fellani for similar reasons, although Fred was to be more of a Fernandinho box to box type player.

Kante came to Chelsea after he was gone, but our fans I have constantly read are in love with him but he's not technically good enough if you put things together correctly, IMHO.

In Ndombele he now gets more of that and is a factor for Spurs to get what Mourhino wants in the modern game.

More pace and more technical ability to go along with the changes with pressing and fitness.

Last season Ndombele, we saw from the Amazon documentary that he struggled adapting. He is improving and actually WE PERHAPS SHOULD HAVE SIGNED HIM IF YOU ASK ME WHEN TXIKI TARGETD JORGINHO.

Pep tried hard to bring technical football to England. It worked in many ways, revolutionising the game in England, but Klopp's gegenpress revealed the technical pressing possession system's failings against certain tactics that initially other managers had not discovered.

Years in more and more clubs have figured this out and other factors have undermined growth not mentioned here.

Pep and Txiki arguably have over-reacted to these tactical struggles, hoping to address them signing Rodri, and now we are where we are.

TBF, the issues at Left back are a factor as well because if we had the Mendy we first signed I think we'd be THAT much better.
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Just to set things straight, Pep was exposed to gegenpressing and the more direct play in BM, and he overcome it. He adapted and eventually played what was (at that time) a new kind of football. A mix of tiki-taka and more direct, penetrating football. Much like the amazing season he had with city, breaking all records.

The thing was that after three seasons at BM things went down hill. Players wanted to go. Players not really happy. Performance declining.

It seems that the same thing may be happening at city.
 
most of our shots are blocked by defenders, hence keepers hardly have a save to make. Either that or our forwards are running in to a packed box.

we never split defences apart anymore because teams are sat that far back, Fergie knew how to attack a packed defence and so does klopp

pep plays the same against a packed box or a forward team. Teams that sit back against Liverpool get battered with speed and pace, we don't do anything to spread panic and force errors.

I love the passing and possession, the press, but it has been to slow lately, to easy to defend against.

the way we are playing we will win a third of our games, draw the other third, then lose a lot by games like spurs where you look at the stats and think wow we must have battered this team. But lost 2 nil making a donkey like jose look a tactical genius.
 
r.soleofsalford said:
Our defense. Opposition teams play 11 man defense behind the ball. Which other team has to contend with this mass defense ?

Its been proved successful, if they counter attack with pace when our wingback are caught deep in the opponents half .

Every time a team catch us on the counter it proves that system against us works.

Pep likes possession the opposition fall back condensing their defense in front of their goal. We try to play through the defense and takes shots when there are as many as 21 players in the congested penalty area.

Teams catch us on the break because our pigeon catcher gets caught up field quite often. The same pigeon catcher who has limited effect going forward.

The problem is there for Pep to solve. He hasn`t solved it in the last 47 league games and IMO the problem is getting worse not better.

We have the same problem in the CL.
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Agreed, it would be nice if our wingers actually took their man on on the outside with skill and /or pace occasionally just to mix it up a bit and fizz the ball across goal, the odd time we do this, it's panic stations in the oppositions defence.
Instead though, 99% of the time, he just checks back, cuts inside, plays it inside to Bernie (as an example) who then plays it to an (now out of position) overlapping Kyle/left back, who then often plays it inside, the ball's eventually worked in an arc to the other side, rinse and repeat until we lose possession, opposition break etc etc etc.

It seems to me there's an obsession with possession football all over the pitch, which is fine in the first two thirds, but the last third, occasionally/often you need to take the reins off a bit and give the flair players more freedom and less restrictions, it's all a bit too "safe" though much of the time.
 
r.soleofsalford said:
Our defense. Opposition teams play 11 man defense behind the ball. Which other team has to contend with this mass defense ?

Its been proved successful, if they counter attack with pace when our wingback are caught deep in the opponents half .

Every time a team catch us on the counter it proves that system against us works.

Pep likes possession the opposition fall back condensing their defense in front of their goal. We try to play through the defense and takes shots when there are as many as 21 players in the congested penalty area.

Teams catch us on the break because our pigeon catcher gets caught up field quite often. The same pigeon catcher who has limited effect going forward.

The problem is there for Pep to solve. He hasn`t solved it in the last 47 league games and IMO the problem is getting worse not better.

We have the same problem in the CL.
Click to expand...
Do people seriously believe teams don’t park the bus every week against Liverpool(see Leicester last night try It despite the scousers missing plenty of their best players) and against any other top team in Europe like Bayern? It’s been happening for years and was happening against us 3 years ago but we could open teams up, only difference is it now works a treat against our crab like narrow approach.
 
All of these are true, but why can Pep and the board seemingly not see it, or at least be failing to address it!? It's the same slow shit and missed chances every fucking week.

We desperately need to change either how we play or sign some more direct, pacey attackers and unless we're writing this season off they need to come in January.
 
I think a number of things are off, defence hasn’t been solid which put extra pressure on them to score 2/3 goals a game.
Change in the midfield dynamic has meant build up has been slower.
Teams know what spaces we want to work in and have closed them off.

The big thing for me is that we are so reactive in the transfer windows. We arnt proactive in bringing a top player in just cause he will make us better.

United under Fergie constantly was bringing fresh attacking players in once he felt the old ones had been worked out.
Liverpool this year added Jota and it changed them just a touch which means teams still arnt sure how they will play.

We have let our front line go stale, if anything it’s weaker for Sane leaving. We still havnt replaced Dzeko.
Mahrez is a step below where we should be going. Torres looks great but really he should be brought in slowly and shouldn’t be a first 11 player yet. Silva has left and we are weaker for it.
When did we last buy a top top attacking player that improved us in the final 3rd??
Youv got to change, youv got to keep teams guessing. It creates a buzz around the team when a new player comes in and scores a few.
Sadly we have ignored it the final 3rd and once again we are left chasing our tails.
 
When we dominated the league in 18/19, we played with Sane (left footer) on the left and Sterling (right footer) on the right. Our RB and LB moved centrally to support Fernandinho in stopping the counter.

The best we've played all season was vs Marseille when we had Foden on the left and Sterling on the right.

Using inverted wingers isn't working, because the opposition teams are packing out the penalty area already. We need more width from our wingers to create more space for the central players.
 
didn't we not so long ago win about 20 games back to back at home ?

You spoke to away fans on the way to the stadium at that time and they would say "travelled all this way but hold little hope".. Now teams must come to our place and it feels like a party.
 
Starts in midfield really for me:

David Silva gone
Fernandinho too old now

Neither of them were adequately replaced

De Bruyne struggling with injuries and form

Sane gone and not really replaced
Mahrez not good enough
Sterling inconsistent

Aguero is old and struggling with re-occurring injuries
Jury still out on Jesus for me
 
Its not rocket-science...if you replace individuals with inferior ones, you will get worse as a team. Unfortunately, we have become experts in doing this.

Mahrez - Not as good as Sterling
Sterling - Not as good as Sane
Rodri - Not as good as Fern
Jesus (Who I love) / Current Aguero - Not as good as peak Aguero
Whoever - Not as good as Merlin

We have gotten weaker in 5 of the 6 midfield/forward places and the only reason its not a full-house is because KDB is still here. What makes it worse is we have managed to do all of this over a 2 year period, which is a feat in itself.

We had IMO collectively the best midfield/forward 6 in world football and now we don't.
 
trevorriley said:
didn't we not so long ago win about 20 games back to back at home ?

You spoke to away fans on the way to the stadium at that time and they would say "travelled all this way but hold little hope".. Now teams must come to our place and it feels like a party.
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They have the same mentality that started appearing at The Swamp over the last couple of seasons. Teams would get off the bus knowing they had a mountain to climb - goal scorers and refs who would gift a pen for a fresh air tackle (which seems to be making a reappearanxce!), and then it changed and ordinary PL teams were getting results. I used to turn up at The Etihad with the sole idea that we might keep the opposition to five, then my mentality changed when Mancini and Pellers arrived and it was a case of 'how many will we score today!', and now that's changing. If teams give it half a go we can still let in the sloppiest shittiest goal, and if refs oblige with the aid of VAR we can get fucked over seemingly more than most. Once we get a goal, and another, teams gave up the ghost and we romped on! I look at our back line - Walker, Laporte, Diaz, Mendy, Cancelo, and think 'brick outhouses, bunkers from the Western Front or Atlantic Wall, the Maginot line, and then we shoot ourselves in the foot and the bastards are round the side, through the middle and in. But, heigh ho, 'nother match coming up!
 
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