Our attack - what's off?

buckshot said:
Isn't the problem with the attack that they're playing with two holding midfielders?
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Sometimes. Gundogan was playing forward yesterday. There are multiple reasons:

1) we miss Dave
2) we miss Dave
3) we miss Dave

4) Kev and Raz and Bernie lack form/confidence. Not just in front of goal but the clear cut assists we had come to expect
5) against the better teams we are playing two pivots which is restricting chances being made
6) until Cancelos performance yesterday our full backs are offering little in attack
7) transition from defence to attack is noticeably slower comparing Rodri with Fern
8) the pace of pass has noticeably dropped this season

9) we miss Dave
10) did I mention, we miss Dave?

Cancelos performance yesterday gives Pep some thinking. He was quite magnificent in attack and all our best stuff came through him. He lacks Walkers pace though and defensive physicality. Maybe they will be chosen depending on the opposition. Difficult for Cancelo to replicate that performance yesterday from the left. He tries but is hampered by being relatively one footed.
 
We've been missing incredible numbers of chances for several years now.

My son & I invented a little game about 3 years ago, where we count how often a commentator or pundit says "Oh ! You'd have put your mortgage on Aguero to score there !" Sometimes it happens more than once a half (commentators obviously have short memories).

You would not put your mortgage on any City player to score from any position (including 2 yards out, an empty net, or a penalty) ... and that includes Aguero, who had missed more "big chances" in his time than any other player in Premier League history.

As an example, five (!) different players took - and missed - penalties for City last season.

Don't know why or what the answer is.
 
Blue Theatre said:
We've been missing incredible numbers of chances for several years now.

My son & I invented a little game about 3 years ago, where we count how often a commentator or pundit says "Oh ! You'd have put your mortgage on Aguero to score there !" Sometimes it happens more than once a half (commentators obviously have short memories).

You would not put your mortgage on any City player to score from any position (including 2 yards out, an empty net, or a penalty) ... and that includes Aguero, who had missed more "big chances" in his time than any other player in Premier League history.

As an example, five (!) different players took - and missed - penalties for City last season.

Don't know why or what the answer is.
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What about the famous “collectors item “of de bruyne hitting a wayward pass .
 
I want to know what is Sterling's actual position in 90 mins of a game?
The amount of times the camera follows the ball down the wing and i'm expecting to see him but he's not there.
I look for him then see him 30 yrds away, in the middle normally walking next to one of OUR players.
Does Pep see him as being that good he's got a free roll?
Well if so shouldn't he be more effective?
Yes he got the assist last night, but i feel if Gundo hadn't moved into some pocket of space for him, he'd still be on the same spot with the ball now wondering what to do with it.
This might sound harsh on him, but he infuriates me cos i know and iv seen that he can do alot better/more
 
Blue Theatre said:
We've been missing incredible numbers of chances for several years now.

My son & I invented a little game about 3 years ago, where we count how often a commentator or pundit says "Oh ! You'd have put your mortgage on Aguero to score there !" Sometimes it happens more than once a half (commentators obviously have short memories).

You would not put your mortgage on any City player to score from any position (including 2 yards out, an empty net, or a penalty) ... and that includes Aguero, who had missed more "big chances" in his time than any other player in Premier League history.

As an example, five (!) different players took - and missed - penalties for City last season.

Don't know why or what the answer is.
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you're really having a go at Kun? Utter nonsense that part of your post.
 
Blue Theatre said:
We've been missing incredible numbers of chances for several years now.

My son & I invented a little game about 3 years ago, where we count how often a commentator or pundit says "Oh ! You'd have put your mortgage on Aguero to score there !" Sometimes it happens more than once a half (commentators obviously have short memories).

You would not put your mortgage on any City player to score from any position (including 2 yards out, an empty net, or a penalty) ... and that includes Aguero, who had missed more "big chances" in his time than any other player in Premier League history.

As an example, five (!) different players took - and missed - penalties for City last season.

Don't know why or what the answer is.
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I think the answer is to buy/play players who are also decent finishers.

If you look at our starting 11, bar Aguero, (who still misses chances), I do not have much faith in the other players to regularly convert opportunities, particularly in the most important of matches.

Also we often play a midfielder in our front three, be it Bernardo, Foden etc. In complete contrast to United or Liverpool who play the likes of Mane, Salah, Rashford, Greenwood in wide positions.

Consequently we are much better in controlling and dominating the play, but it does result in less ruthless finishing.

Its finding the balance of whether we accept having less control of the match, but have a better conversion rate or stick to our policy, which has worked well the last 2 years, of maintaining control of the game, which will hopefully result in the creation of lots of chances, which masks our profligacy in front of goal.
 
Other than some horrendous finishing I believe the main problem is playing two holding midfielders. I think Fidel should be given a run in midfield, he has a goal in him and is a very forward thinking player. Torres also has goals but plays very few games
 
We need top class scorers.

I look at the goalscorer list, Salah, Calwert Lewin, Son, Vardy, Bruno Fernandes etc.

Our best PL scorers are Sterling with 4 and Mahrez with 4, and Mahrez had a hattrick against might Burnley which means 1 goal in all the rest of his PL games in total. That from a wide attacking player in our system is poor.

For me Jesus is never a 20+ scorer in PL, even if he would start 38 games in PL he still would not hit 20+. Might not even 15+. And on his way not even hit 10+ this season imo. Injuries, rotation and general lack of scoring when he plays...

Now when KDb, David Silva, Bernardo, Gundo, Foden all chipping in couple goals each we can allow maybe a weaker strikers goalscoring rate but not when others are very quiet at scoring like this season...

Other than that in general we are so anxious when we get into good chances, we overplay them, we worry too much about them, instead of a simple and cool finish.

We need someone to lead the attacking line, someone who gives confidence to the teammates and someone who makes the defenders shit themselves. We dont have that now, Torres will not scare them, Mahrez same, Sterling also not in his current form, they might as well be happy to play against Jesus given he plays a lot with his back to the goal and coming deep which prevents him to arrive in good positions.
 
Pep's 343 diamond (4 def, 6 attack) was a very smart way to force numbers into our attack while keeping our best defenders at the backline, I can see this as the plan forward against the parked bus, while 4231 (6 def, 4 attack) against teams who will actually try to take us on.

I actually think I would prefer this 343 diamond being used more consistently, and to not even revert back to 4231 (defensively its fine but not in an attacking sense), because I always prefer for city "the best defense is a good offense" approach.

I think what we did to Newcastle we could do to alot of teams, not just teams who park the bus, although it's nice to have this weapon against parked busses to begin with.

Now the way this 343 diamond worked is we set up by default as a 4141 and would defend this way, 4141 is a strong defensive approach. But to attack, the back 4 shifts right and lets Cancelo come inside next to Gundogan pushing KdB into a 10 role, very smooth approach.

A change I might try (sadly to the detriment to Cancelo who has been great, and to rest him) is to setup in a 4231 by default with Foden as a 10, and Gundogan next to KdB. Then play Rodri as a CB next to Dias with Stones/Walker RB, the transition is then simpler, shift Rodri up behind Gundogan and KdB to free them up, making the 3133 (343 diamond) shape and pin the opposition back this way.

This has the benefit of playing KdB deeper and not relying on him to finish chances as much, and instead being able to play Foden in this setup and relying on him to create AND score, I think this is a logical way to play Foden and KdB together which Pep doesn't like to do.

We definitely need to score more of our chances, we are definitely worse at that than the last seasons, but simultaneously we need to create more and that Newcastle game showed another approach how to do that.
 
WallyA said:
Pep's 343 diamond (4 def, 6 attack) was a very smart way to force numbers into our attack while keeping our best defenders at the backline, I can see this as the plan forward against the parked bus, while 4231 (6 def, 4 attack) against teams who will actually try to take us on.

I actually think I would prefer this 343 diamond being used more consistently, and to not even revert back to 4231, because I always prefer for city "the best defense is a good offense" approach.

I think what we did to Newcastle we could do to alot of teams, not just teams who park the bus, although it's nice to have this weapon against parked busses to begin with.

Now the way this 343 diamond worked is we set up by default as a 4141 and would defend this way, 4141 is a strong defensive approach. But to attack, the back 4 shifts right and lets Cancelo come inside next to Gundogan pushing KdB into a 10 role, very smooth approach.

A change I might try (sadly to the detriment to Cancelo who has been great, and to rest him) is to setup in a 4231 by default with Foden as a 10, and Gundogan next to KdB. Then play Rodri as a CB next to Dias with Stones/Walker RB, the transition is then simpler, shift Rodri up behind Gundogan and KdB to free them up, making the 3133 (343 diamond) shape and pin the opposition back this way.

This has the benefit of playing KdB deeper and not relying on him to finish chances as much, and instead being able to play Foden in this setup and relying on him to create AND score, I think this is a logical way to play Foden and KdB together which Pep doesn't like to do.
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In reality, Cancelo was absolutely immense at it so we need to play to that strength.
 
PannickAtTheDisco said:
In reality, Cancelo was absolutely immense at it so we need to play to that strength.
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It would be more of an alternative setup to allow Cancelo a break.

Basically the tradeoff is to go from KdB and Cancelo to KdB and Foden.

An alternative, is swap Gundogan for Cancelo, then you have Cancelo, Foden, KdB supporting the front 3, which is also scary to think about.
 
I just saw an interesting stat. For goals scored we sit 10th in the league! Certainly not something any of us would have expected at the start of the season.

Pep’s fixed our defence and of course we’ve been hampered in attack by not having a striker fit and available for a good chunk of games. If we can improve our attack whilst keeping such a solid defence then hopefully that will be enough to get back our league title!
 
bugsyblue said:
I just saw an interesting stat. For goals scored we sit 10th in the league! Certainly not something any of us would have expected at the start of the season.

Pep’s fixed our defence and of course we’ve been hampered in attack by not having a striker fit and available for a good chunk of games. If we can improve our attack whilst keeping such a solid defence then hopefully that will be enough to get back our league title!
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We are back to creating chances which is a big plus, we should have easily scored four midweek with the opportunities that didn’t go in.
 
bugsyblue said:
I just saw an interesting stat. For goals scored we sit 10th in the league! Certainly not something any of us would have expected at the start of the season.

Pep’s fixed our defence and of course we’ve been hampered in attack by not having a striker fit and available for a good chunk of games. If we can improve our attack whilst keeping such a solid defence then hopefully that will be enough to get back our league title!
Click to expand...
It’s evidence that Pep can tweak the balance between attack and defence at will, depending on our circumstances and opposition. He had me worried for a while.
 
We haven’t had a fit and prolific striker. That is the only reason. Of that I am convinced.
We’ve made do til now and phil has stepped up in the last few weeks and the defence has enabled us to win with 1 goal scored, but it’s unlikely to be sustainable for a whole season.
 
We went into this season with 2 strikers, one is finished the other Pep plays as a midfielder/winger, we also have a slow defence/ midfield which means we start our attacks a lot deeper, we have changed the way we play and this can be shown by how many times we have scored from counters this season, but also how many we have conceded through corners/crosses.
If we take our next game as the only thing that is important `which we did the last time we won the league` then Pep is a genius, if we do not win the league Pep will be seen as finished and butchered, it is in our hands so for me the next game is all that matters.
 
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