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It’s interesting how society deals with these types of issues. The slave trade, the Empire etc are all a stain on our past. Removing tge ship from the Manchester Coat of Arms won’t change anything! Instead history needs to be placed into context and our relationship with it needs to evolve. Theres no point in executing a cover up - the UK needs to come to terms with its past and accept responsibility for our ancestor’s actions. The statues of various despots who profited from the slave trade should not be in prominent places like they were in Bristol but they should be preserved in museums for people to learn from. The Germans could have bulldozed Dacau and pretended it was never there - but far better to preserve it and let us understand the horrors that took place there.

Statues at universities provided after substantial donations shows society approved, the university approved & took the blood money & all future students benefited.

No one is clean if you want to look deep, from the maid in the big house or the nurses in the hospital.

& it shouldn’t just be the Atlantic slave trade, slavery was common all over the world.
 
Apparently the daft Eagle was also a possible Nazi emblem
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Absolutely agree.

I would likely be classed as “woke” by many on here, as I fervently believe we still haven’t fully come to terms with the vast darkness of our history and the very real consequences of it still playing out around the world today (see what is happening in Sudan and Israel/Palestine right now for but two examples). Nor have we done much in the way of atoning for the sins of our fathers. That doesn’t mean condemning those alive today for what their ancestors did, but it does mean earnestly studying the harm our country has done over the centuries, especially in the name of empire, acknowledging that our relative wealth and political dominance today is largely due to heinous actions and insidious exploitation, and coming to terms with the exploitation and subjugation still existing today (evolved from the historical policies and actions of those that came before us), which underpin our socioeconomic and political structures, and our very way of life.

But even I think removing the ship from our, United’s, or any else crest/logo is wholly misguided. It serves to achieve none of the goals I outline above. If anything, as you allude to above, it only serves to further obfuscate our past. And beyond that, a sailing ship was used by a great many people in our culture and elsewhere for things completely unrelated to slavery, colonialism, and war. If we scrubbed all symbols that had some connection with those detestable actions we would scarcely have much left to use for any purpose.

Whilst I appreciate this blue’s work to highlight the role slavery and colonialism played in Manchester’s history (something we still need to explore more), removing the ship on the badge is not going to change anything. In fact, I think leaving it does more good.

Great post & we did as much damage as part of the League of Nations using a pencil & ruler to decide boundaries whilst putting our own rulers in place.

It’s no different to G14 using Gill & Parry.
 
Great post & we did as much damage as part of the League of Nations using a pencil & ruler to decide boundaries whilst putting our own rulers in place.

It’s no different to G14 using Gill & Parry.
Yeah, I was definitely referring to far more than the subject matter of the article. And much of that more recent history is being ignored these days.

As I have said a few times in the thread, to get back to more footballing related terms, I was denouncing the Dipper philosophy of revisionist denialism.

All of this discussion brings me back to one of my all time favourite skits.

 

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