Our Defence

[malg]

I sometimes wonder what the defenders are being briefed before a game, or during training. Mangala is getting dog's abuse over in his own thread, but I think a lot of it is unfair given that most of our defenders are guilty of the same shite. I've tried to defend the lad, but not because I don't think he's making any errors, I just think he doesn't deserve it on his own, I think the whole defence needs a boot up the arse.

Diving in has got to ludicrous levels. Mangala, Otamendi, Clichy......even Vinny is culpable of it. As for positional sense, it appears that no fucker is getting any coaching at all. Fuck knows what's going through Joe Hart's mind half the time watching what's going on in front of him.

I've got plenty of questions, but no idea what the answers are:

Is it that the cover in front of the back four is non existent, therefore the central defenders are getting dragged out of position?

Is it an ever changing back four, who have no idea how to play as a defensive unit? I've seen the centre backs out wide getting involved where the full backs should be, or even one of our wide players.

Is it that Vinny is the only leader we have back there? He seems to knit it together.

Can Hart do more? He can see it all, can he not give out a bollocking to Mangala/Otamendi and tell them that they're centre backs, and to stop fucking wandering.

Is the manager to blame, or the coaching staff? Let's face it, they must be OK with the racing out and diving in otherwise the fuckers wouldn't be doing it.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

I thought we were a little flaky yesterday but then I realised all was well when I saw Bournemouth's second goal! Bigger laugh than their first one!!

I thought the defence held up reasonably well but it seems that we are still in 'make a mistake concede a goal' mode. I've been saying all season that Mangala will run down anyone, but yesterday he was just that half a second off the pace and let Gomis get the jump on him and we concede.

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

I have a view that defending starts from the front. Well it does at every other club but we have some of the laziest players around when it comes to this.

 

[Mike1984]

Need kompany back when he plays he leads the team and organises the defence he's our best defender and the captain and leader the sooner we get him back the better I just hope it's not to far away here doesn't seem to be a time frame on when he's back any one any idea?

 

[baildon blue]

Delph playing as a forward yesterday in the second half .
He was more forward than anybody .
Another weird move by Pellergrini .
That midfield was too easy to bypass in the second half

 

[yayas trusty right foot]

Mangala was at fault for the goal yesterday..

However Otamendi has been at fault for several goals over the past few weeks..

The early promise he showed has now gone..

I think Otamendi would be far more suited in a DM role in the Prem, he just isnt physical enough as a centre half and gets beaten too easily.

 

[Deleted member 58678]

It starts with the striker and other forwards. We have no pressing game at all and don't defend narrowly from the front neither. We are spread out as a team a lot and therefore there are large gaps everywhere. From there we often just have two central midfielders. Klopp and Hughes (and whoever the Swansea manager was yesterday) sussed out that playing with no striker and dropping the extra man (flase 9 if you like) deep gives them more numbers in midfield than us. So Yaya and Fernandinho are going to struggle.

Then still before getting onto the centre halves Pellegrini is asking four 30+ year olds - none of which (possibly Clichy to be fair to him) have any real pace - to bomb up and down the wing all game. But because we have a lot of gaps around the pitch teams can counter attack us quickly and when that happens our full back are out of position and can't really get back quickly. Could you imagine the difference to our team Alex Sandro and Seamus Coleman would make? But we don't have them and Pellegrini expects our full backs to do the job they can. What can often hell with this is the defensive mids covering the fullback area. But if there's 2v3 or 2v4 in centre mid, they can't do that.

Then the centre halves. They are hung out to dry by everything above often, but also they don't seem to be drilled on moving up and down together. The difference to what we used to see with Kompany and Lescott to any partnership we have now is stark. They are also often to wide apart too as they are worried about a missing full back.

At times our defending is absolute chaos. I think it's poor and is the reason I can't take to Pellegrini. Even the most attack minded elite managers pay huge attention to detail to defending. We don't seem to at all.

 

[bezer57]

Unfortunately if u wont ur left and right backs to bomb forwards at every opportunity u have to have ur midfielders to cover for that and thats one thing we dont do as our midfielders are the ones that are our most creative players . U cant have both. .?

 

[feedmpenzaandhewillscore]

I sometimes wonder what the defenders are being briefed before a game, or during training. Mangala is getting dog's abuse over in his own thread, but I think a lot of it is unfair given that most of our defenders are guilty of the same shite. I've tried to defend the lad, but not because I don't think he's making any errors, I just think he doesn't deserve it on his own, I think the whole defence needs a boot up the arse.

Diving in has got to ludicrous levels. Mangala, Otamendi, Clichy......even Vinny is culpable of it. As for positional sense, it appears that no fucker is getting any coaching at all. Fuck knows what's going through Joe Hart's mind half the time watching what's going on in front of him.

I've got plenty of questions, but no idea what the answers are:

Is it that the cover in front of the back four is non existent, therefore the central defenders are getting dragged out of position?

Is it an ever changing back four, who have no idea how to play as a defensive unit? I've seen the centre backs out wide getting involved where the full backs should be, or even one of our wide players.

Is it that Vinny is the only leader we have back there? He seems to knit it together.

Can Hart do more? He can see it all, can he not give out a bollocking to Mangala/Otamendi and tell them that they're centre backs, and to stop fucking wandering.

Is the manager to blame, or the coaching staff? Let's face it, they must be OK with the racing out and diving in otherwise the fuckers wouldn't be doing it.

We should be defending from the front once the ball is turned over every player should be looking up and seeing where their man is instead of trotting back into position. I don't think we've properly replaced Gaz Barry as there doesn't seem anyone sensible to drop into a full back position when the likes of Kolorov and Sagna are bombing forward.

The moment the ball is lost we should be back into a compact shape and looking to close the ball and cut off options, we don't and let passes build up and other movements from the opposition occur.

The gap between our midfield and defence and gives other teams licence to operate in that space. Otemendi goes hunting for the ball in full back positions when he shouldn't. Mangala needs someone with him that can organise.

I think we will be in the market for full backs on both sides this summer. Sagna looks tired at the moment but not much chance of a rest and the left side is a problem we have never addressed since the take over.

The defensive problems will only ever be solved with a change of manager and how he decides to coach and set up the team. City were hard to get at under Mancini but in his final season the goals ran out. Pellergrini is the other way round and wants to out score his way through games. A manager that can cover both disciplines is required.

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

Unfortunately if u wont ur left and right backs to bomb forwards at every opportunity u have to have ur midfielders to cover for that and thats one thing we dont do as our midfielders are the ones that are our most creative players . U cant have both. .?

Yesterday, our full backs didn't bomb up and down, in fact offensively they added nothing yet we were still all over the place.

 

[Mike N]

No pressing from the main forward at all. The opposition defenders know that Bony will never close them down.

And worst of all IMO are the full backs who NEVER stop the cross coming over.

 

[cookster]

Just posted on another thread we've conceded 17 goals in the last 11 league games. Only the current bottom 6 have conceded more.

I don't believe it's down to the players, the Engineer has got us stuck in reverse!

 

[stablemcfc]

I thought we were a little flaky yesterday but then I realised all was well when I saw Bournemouth's second goal! Bigger laugh than their first one!!

I thought the defence held up reasonably well but it seems that we are still in 'make a mistake concede a goal' mode. I've been saying all season that Mangala will run down anyone, but yesterday he was just that half a second off the pace and let Gomis get the jump on him and we concede.

Would agree with this in a few matches of past, e.g. Gladbach game.

But yesterday, the Stoke game & the Liverpool game we could & should have conceded far more than we did. Swansea had 3-4 big chances before scoring. Pure luck & Hart doing well that prevented such. Was pretty shambolic, especially considering we seemingly had settled for a 1-0 lead & seemingly were actively trying to defend rather than just getting caught out whilst we attacked.

 

[kunaguero10]

Yesterday, our full backs didn't bomb up and down, in fact offensively they added nothing yet we were still all over the place.

+1

I'm no expert but surely the first thing to cut out is to stop the diving in by the centre halves, just tell them to stay rooted to their position and hold their line with each other, when the player gets within 25 yards of goal that is the time to press them, not 40+ yards from goal.

 

[pml79]

We don't defend anymore with pellers . defence is now like arsenal's weak n leaks goals doesn't matter if we have best centre half's in world football the way we play and set up they would leak goals . We don't tackle to get the ball back we now mostly get the ball back from the opposition from their stray passes or break down in their play .

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I said on the post-match thread that from where I sit, in 109, you can see one thing straight away. In the first half the Swansea back four lined up on the 18 yard line with their three midfielders about 10-15 yards in front. That meant that when we attacked, we had no room in and around their box. In the second half, our back four was 15-20 yards further up, which is about where Swansea's midfield was in the first half, and our midfield was more worried about attacking than defending.

We were 1-0 up with minutes to go, with Swansea having a lot of attacking players on, yet everyone was still upfield. Gomis was on the shoulder of Mangala yet still had loads of space behind him to run into, meaning he could run past him and still have enough angle to get off a shot (although I don't think Hart should have been beaten from that angle). If our defence had been instructed to pull back their line 20 yards for the last 10 minutes, with the 4 midfielders (Toure, Delph, Fernandinho & Navas) told to sit 10-15 yards in front, then I doubt we would have conceded, certainly not in the way we did.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

We were 1-0 up with minutes to go, with Swansea having a lot of attacking players on, yet everyone was still upfield. Gomis was on the shoulder of Mangala yet still had loads of space behind him to run into, meaning he could run past him and still have enough angle to get off a shot (although I don't think Hart should have been beaten from that angle). If our defence had been instructed to pull back their line 20 yards for the last 10 minutes, with the 4 midfielders (Toure, Delph, Fernandinho & Navas) told to sit 10-15 yards in front, then I doubt we would have conceded, certainly not in the way we did.

Yeah, I don't get this obsession with playing the high line all the time. Sure, do it when the game is open and we're dominating possession and chances. But once we've got the lead and it's become obvious that we're not going to create much, why not just play deeper and on the counter, especially given the players we've got? It's the lack of flexibility that annoys me. I thought he'd decided to do that when Delph came on for Sterling, but it was more of the same, but with a central midfielder trying to play as a winger.

 

[Nelly's Left Foot]

I said on the post-match thread that from where I sit, in 109, you can see one thing straight away. In the first half the Swansea back four lined up on the 18 yard line with their three midfielders about 10-15 yards in front. That meant that when we attacked, we had no room in and around their box. In the second half, our back four was 15-20 yards further up, which is about where Swansea's midfield was in the first half, and our midfield was more worried about attacking than defending.

We were 1-0 up with minutes to go, with Swansea having a lot of attacking players on, yet everyone was still upfield. Gomis was on the shoulder of Mangala yet still had loads of space behind him to run into, meaning he could run past him and still have enough angle to get off a shot (although I don't think Hart should have been beaten from that angle). If our defence had been instructed to pull back their line 20 yards for the last 10 minutes, with the 4 midfielders (Toure, Delph, Fernandinho & Navas) told to sit 10-15 yards in front, then I doubt we would have conceded, certainly not in the way we did.

It is a worry that every team now knows how we play and that the key thing for them is to time runs and especially from deep and we can be undone. Yesterday though as soon as I heard that Yaya was one of 2 central midfield players I feared problems.As ever he can be good on the ball and as likely as anyone to create or score but as any sort of defensive midfield player you can almost totally discount him... Swansea did!

 

[Neville Kneville]

I said on the post-match thread that from where I sit, in 109, you can see one thing straight away. In the first half the Swansea back four lined up on the 18 yard line with their three midfielders about 10-15 yards in front. That meant that when we attacked, we had no room in and around their box. In the second half, our back four was 15-20 yards further up, which is about where Swansea's midfield was in the first half, and our midfield was more worried about attacking than defending.

We were 1-0 up with minutes to go, with Swansea having a lot of attacking players on, yet everyone was still upfield. Gomis was on the shoulder of Mangala yet still had loads of space behind him to run into, meaning he could run past him and still have enough angle to get off a shot (although I don't think Hart should have been beaten from that angle). If our defence had been instructed to pull back their line 20 yards for the last 10 minutes, with the 4 midfielders (Toure, Delph, Fernandinho & Navas) told to sit 10-15 yards in front, then I doubt we would have conceded, certainly not in the way we did.

I used to see a plan it what we were doing. Even in the dregs of last season. It appeared to me that we were trying to evolve into a pressing team, which won the ball in the opponent's half, preferably their back 3rd, & all the rest of the defensive stuff was designed around that.

The problem as I saw it, was that we only pressed for about 5 mins from kickoff. After 15 we had given up, & were then just a piss por team defensively, wide open. So I gave Pellegrini the benefit of the doubt, that the players were fatigued after the title win, World Cup etc, some were bought to play Mancini's system not this one, ffp, he will make some signings & get the front plus midfield pressing etc.

So we get Sterling who is probably the best we faced & tore us a new arsehole playing that exact game, DeBruyne, lively as fuck, Delph, loads of energy.

And we don't play like that. and we still defend like kids apart from when Kompany organises it. But Sterling & DeBruyne are also two of the most fearsome counter attacking players around. But we don't play counter attacking football.

We seem to be playing a mixture of plans & styles & & not all necessarily playing the same one at the same time. Some are pressing, some are stood still, it is basically in crisis. The whole thing is falling apart. The cbs are rushing out even when they have no possibility of getting to the ball or stopping the player, thus leaving a hole every time. The fullbacks are neither attacking nor defending, the midfield neither sitting nor running properly, just in no mans land.

Yet only a few weeks ago, in Seville, we had a nice organised, balanced team. Rather than work on it, we have yet again, changed everything.

It's becoming impossible to tell which players are good enough, because none have a fucking clue what they are supposed to do.

 

[Neville Kneville]

It is a worry that every team now knows how we play and that the key thing for them is to time runs and especially from deep and we can be undone. Yesterday though as soon as I heard that Yaya was one of 2 central midfield players I feared problems.As ever he can be good on the ball and as likely as anyone to create or score but as any sort of defensive midfield player you can almost totally discount him... Swansea did!

You would think though, that if it would ever work, it would be v a side like Swansea, at home. But as a team, we didn't play any kind of quality football, so rather than us passing the ball around & opening up them, they were passing it around & exploiting our lack of numbers in midfield & organisation in defence.

You would imagine that a tactical change would happen early on, to combat it, but that change was at half time, Delph on the wing.