Our Squad.

[depps]

JC where can the actual regs be found?

All I can find is this and it doesn't say U-21 must be club trained: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.premierleague.com/page/Headlines/0,,12306~1797582,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.premierleague.com/page/Headl ... 82,00.html</a>

He is saying the Europa regs say 4 must be club trained.

EPL is just 8 home grown total.

No I understand that part of the rule.

Its the U-21 thing I'm confused about. I thought all U-21 players didn't have to be registered, whereas he says only club trained U-21s don't have to be registered. As far as I can tell though there is nothing that would make Guidetti club trained and not Balotelli. The criteria for counting as club trained is 3 yrs before the age of 21 at the club. Neither of those have fulfilled that yet but both still could. So whats the difference?

 

[tommytheblue]

I have only read the press release from the premier league, I can't find the regs refereed to that state otherwise.

Silly point to make, But Football manager, don't usually get the rules wrong! As far as they see it. The home grown quota only equates to players registered to the squad. 3 years training before the age of 21 at the club allows the player to be registered as HG. That's clear.

Players under 21, who are not in the 25 do not have to be HG players, and can be included apart of the squad through out the season. Hence, Youth players from abroad, who have only joined the club are able to feature in the 1st team.

Clubs will be able to supplement their squads with unlimited additional players under the age of 21 on 1st January in the year in which the season commences.

richard scudamore.

There is no mention of HG restrictions to the supplement squad.

 

[Cobwebcat]

The under 21 B list (home grown or not) is the only bit I cannot find clarified anywhere so either could be correct. Different sites say different things on this one point.

If we sign Balotelli I would not be happy saying one way or another whether he would have to be one of the A list or not.

If The Prem are the same as UEFA then they DO have to be home grown so Balotelli would be in the "A" list:

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/footballfirst/protectingthegame/youngplayers/news/newsid=276829.html

 

[johnny crossan]

JC where can the actual regs be found?

All I can find is this and it doesn't say U-21 must be club trained: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.premierleague.com/page/Headlines/0,,12306~1797582,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.premierleague.com/page/Headl ... 82,00.html</a>

This is the reg:
"A home grown player is defined as one who, irrespective of his nationality or age, has been registered with any club affiliated to the Football Association or the Welsh Football Association for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons or 36 months prior to his 21st birthday (or the end of the season during which he turns 21).

For the purposes of this rule, the season is deemed to run from the date the first transfer window closes until the final match of the campaign.
In keeping with UEFA guidelines, an Under 21 player is defined as one who is under the age of 21 on 1st January in the year in which the season commences. For the 2010/11 campaign Under 21 players will have been born on or after 1st January 1989."

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.premierleague.com/page/Headlines/0,,12306~2094341,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.premierleague.com/page/Headl ... 41,00.html</a>

Thus Balotelli, being formerly registered with Inter Milan, would not qualify for the Prem or the Europa League B lists and if he wants to play outside our domestic cup competitions would have to be included in the 25 man A Squad as one of the 17 non association trained players.

Guidetti is interesting, if he hasn't been at our club for 36 months I suppose he is also ineligible as a club trained player for both B squads. I suppose this age bar has to be seen in the context of the purpose of the regs (i.e. to force clubs to train and play more of their own players.)

 

[depps]

jc unless im missing something there that only explains how a player becomes home grown. It doesnt say anywhere that player on the b list must be home grown

 

[johnny crossan]

jc unless im missing something there that only explains how a player becomes home grown. It doesnt say anywhere that player on the b list must be home grown

I think this bit is relevant but it doesn't say that b list must be home grown as you say but I think it implies it. Interesting point you make I shall reflect further.

"The squad system idea coupled with a home grown player quota received broad support and after considering various other systems of this kind from around Europe, Clubs opted to closely replicate the model in use by UEFA, partly because it was the one with which a significant number of Clubs were the most familiar.

"One difference between the Premier League and UEFA systems is that with UEFA, Home Grown players are split into two categories: association trained and club trained whereas Premier League Rules refer only to association trained - in other words to qualify as a Home Grown Player you must have spent at least three years registered with any English or Welsh Clubs while below the age of 21.

"If this does increase opportunities for young players as we hope, then it will encourage further investment in youth development. The more quality Under 21 players clubs have, the better placed they will be as they will have more players to select from.

"Clubs may be permitted to change their squads outside the transfer window in very extreme cases and with the Board's approval - for example, if they have injuries to goalkeepers. However we do not anticipate many occasions where this is likely to happen.

"In the event of the unavailability of players in the first team squad due to injury, illness or suspension then clubs will have to promote Under 21 players as they will not be able to change their squad or register new players if the Window has closed."
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.premierleague.com/page/Magazinedettail/0,,12306~2098999,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.premierleague.com/page/Magaz ... 99,00.html</a>

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

just thought I'd say the 8 for the premier league only have to be trained by a british club and not by the actual club who owns them, and in Europe of the 8 homegrowns only 4 have to have been developed by the club that owns them, the other 4 can be from any british club.

don't know if that's been mentioned.

 

[macmanson]

http://www.mcfc.co.uk/Players

We Currently have 38 players, not including further signigns.
(The under 21's are Boyata, Cunningham, Ibrahim, Weiss and Nimely.)

Meaning we currently have 33 over 21's;

+ Gunnar has already gone on loan.
+ Logan, Vidal & Etuhu will probably head out on loan again.
+ Bring in Kolarov and Balotelli (He counts as an under 21)

With the above we would need 5 Sales, much less than i anticipated.

Good analysis, but without Milner and Balotelli and according to the OS we have 39 player, counting recent signing Kolarov. They are:

Goalkeepers (5)

David Gonzales, Shay Given, Joe Hart, Gunnar Nielsen, Stuart Taylor

Defenders (13)

Dedryck Boyata, Greg Cunningham, Javan Vidal, Jerome Boateng, Joleon Lescott, Wayne Bridge, Javier Garrido, Shaleum Logan, Nedum Onuoha, Micah Richards, Kolo Toure, Pablo Zabaleta, Aleksandar Kolarov

Midfielders (13)

Abdisalam Ibrahim, Adam Johnson, David Silva, Gareth Barry, Patrick Vieira, Yaya Toure, Nigel de Jong, Kelvin Etuhu, Stephen Ireland, Michael Johnson, Vincent Kompany, Vladimir Weiss, Shaun Wright-Phillips,

Strikers (8)

Emmanuel Adebayor, Craig Bellamy, Felipe Caicedo, Jô, Alex Tchuimeni-Nimely, Robinho, Roque Santa Cruz, Carlos Tevez

There are 6 Under 21s in that 39.

Dedryck Boyata, Greg Cunningham, Abdisalam Ibrahim, Vladimir Weiss, Alex Tchuimeni-Nimely, Javan Vidal

That leaves 33 players of which 8 have to go.

Gunnar Nielsen is out on loan to Tranmere, so that knocks it down to 7.

Michael Johnson won't be registered for the 1st half of the season as he is not fit to play for the beginning of the season which takes it down to 6.

The 6 that are likely to be sold or loaned are:

1 GK likely to be David Gonzales but could be one of Hart or Given if not a regular starter.

2 DFs Shaleum Logan, Javier Garrido

1 MF Kelvin Etuhu (Could be serving a prison sentence anyway)

2 STs Felipe Caicedo, Jo

That leaves a 25 man roster of:

Goalkeepers (3)

Shay Given, Joe Hart, Stuart Taylor

Defenders (8)

Jerome Boateng, Joleon Lescott, Wayne Bridge, Nedum Onuoha, Micah Richards, Kolo Toure, Pablo Zabaleta, Aleksandar Kolarov

Midfielders (9)

Adam Johnson, David Silva, Gareth Barry, Patrick Vieira, Yaya Toure, Nigel de Jong, Stephen Ireland, Vincent Kompany, Shaun Wright-Phillips

Strikers (5)

Emmanuel Adebayor, Craig Bellamy, Robinho, Roque Santa Cruz, Carlos Tevez

Balotelli would be an under 21 so could be added to the squad without losing any of those players.

Signing Milner would mean that one of the above would have to be moved on. My odds would be on Robinho.

I think we still could be in the hunt for another top notch big man striker as Mancini has been known to use 2 big men up front and I don't see RSC as being that player, would rather we hung onto and developed Caceido. He could turn into the next Drogba me thinks.

 

[johnny crossan]

Back to Balotelli & Guidetti. The Europa League Regulations make it clear that Balotelli is ineligible for the B list for that competition but that Guidetti, even though he has been at the club for less than 3 years, is eligible.

"Conditions for registration: List B
18.15 Each club is entitled to register an unlimited number of players on List B
during the season. The list must be submitted by no later than 24.00 CET on
the day before the match in question.
18.16 A player may be registered on List B if he is born on or after 1 January 1989
and has been eligible to play for the club concerned for any uninterrupted
period of two years since his 15th birthday by the time he is registered with
UEFA. Players aged 16 may be registered on List B if they have been
registered with the participating club for the previous two years without
interruption."
<a class="postlink" href="http://ua.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/competitions/UEFACup/84/52/89/845289_DOWNLOAD.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://ua.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Down ... WNLOAD.pdf</a>

Whether that applies to the Premier League is still puzzling me. It should but they don't actually say so anywhere I've found yet.

 

[lionheart]

Most posters on here have our entire squad strike force comprising just Adebayor, Tevez and Bellamy. Knowing injuries and fatigue, as well as international commitments, there is no way that only three would be able to handle the 65-70 games we may end up having to play. We need to keep either Jo or RSC and hope they improve or preferably sign at least one extra striker. Torres would do nicely, thank you.