P & O

bluethrunthru said:
Turns out you can't just grab someone from anywhere to man a ship in a first world country - its like Hebblethwaite doesn't know what he is doing

www.bbc.co.uk

P&O: Second ferry detained over safety concerns

The Maritime and Coastguard Agency held the Pride of Kent after it failed a safety inspection.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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You can incorporate a few agency staff if they are trained and the majority of the other crew onboard are regular hands. What you can't do is throw a full crew and officers onto a ship they're completely unfamiliar with. It's insanity.
 
Idesofmarch69 said:
If Hebblethwaite is forced out of P&O, I rather hope he is told via a pre-recorded Zoom message.
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Personally I'd like to see the bloke in prison, but failing that a statement from Dubai saying, "I'm afraid CEO's have to be competitive. We can't justify paying £325,000 a year when we can get one from the Philippines for £20,000 a year. Of course I'm sorry for Mr Hepplewhite and his family but it's a business decision."
 
won't reinstate crews and he won't quit. In the case of the former he says that would collapse the whole company - probably true thats why they are where they are - probably due to financial mismanagement anyway. Won't quit because he is probably due a big bonus to get this through THEN quit.

Meanwhile Shapps proving what a knob he is and how impotent Brexit has left the Govt
 
bluethrunthru said:
won't reinstate crews and he won't quit. In the case of the former he says that would collapse the whole company - probably true thats why they are where they are - probably due to financial mismanagement anyway. Won't quit because he is probably due a big bonus to get this through THEN quit.

Meanwhile Shapps proving what a knob he is and how impotent Brexit has left the Govt
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Hebblethwaitehe might come across as a buffoon but trust me the firm will have done their homework in regards to the legalities of what they're doing. The flag of convenience which allows a British owned/operated company to get rid of crew and replace them with a cheaper foreign alternative has been going on for decades. It was never implemented around the British isles due to the furore it would cause. Seamen deep sea are out of sight out of mind so they did it with no fuss by the media, nobody except those it affected gave a shit. Also Sealink, then Sealink/Stena line etcetera didn't dare do it because they had French ships under their command plying the same routes. If they had dared to try it their ships would never have got into French ports. What they've done isn't illegal due to being under the Cypriot flag, where they did break the law was refusing to negotiate with the unions and give any notice. I'm sure they've factored in the cost of the maximum penalty they'll face for doing so.

Best case scenario is the crew all get their payouts. The government hammer the company with the maximum penalty, then change the law making it not financially viable to go down the route they have chosen. Hebblethwaitehe gets sacked, hit with massive individual fines or worse and the company sell up or fold. Let's face it they're not employing local people so no loss. A decent company takes over and crew who loved the job go back to sea under decent terms and conditions plus a nice payout in the bank. Fingers crossed.
 
paulchapo said:
Hebblethwaitehe might come across as a buffoon but trust me the firm will have done their homework in regards to the legalities of what they're doing. The flag of convenience which allows a British owned/operated company to get rid of crew and replace them with a cheaper foreign alternative has been going on for decades. It was never implemented around the British isles due to the furore it would cause. Seamen deep sea are out of sight out of mind so they did it with no fuss by the media, nobody except those it affected gave a shit. Also Sealink, then Sealink/Stena line etcetera didn't dare do it because they had French ships under their command plying the same routes. If they had dared to try it their ships would never have got into French ports. What they've done isn't illegal due to being under the Cypriot flag, where they did break the law was refusing to negotiate with the unions and give any notice. I'm sure they've factored in the cost of the maximum penalty they'll face for doing so.

Best case scenario is the crew all get their payouts. The government hammer the company with the maximum penalty, then change the law making it not financially viable to go down the route they have chosen. Hebblethwaitehe gets sacked, hit with massive individual fines or worse and the company sell up or fold. Let's face it they're not employing local people so no loss. A decent company takes over and crew who loved the job go back to sea under decent terms and conditions plus a nice payout in the bank. Fingers crossed.
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I thought I read the fines were unlimited as the law was broken? If that’s the case make the fine so punitive no one dare repeat the same trick.

Hopefully this whole depressing episode will shine a light, not only, on seafarers and their rights but also other offshore workers who also have ambiguous rights (although I think are better off than seafarers). Sadly as legislation takes so long to work through I expect, once the furore dies down, that nothing will change for the better and the only thing that will stop anyone else doing this is the negative publicity - which is no substitute for proper law.
 
metalblue said:
I thought I read the fines were unlimited as the law was broken? If that’s the case make the fine so punitive no one dare repeat the same trick.

Hopefully this whole depressing episode will shine a light, not only, on seafarers and their rights but also other offshore workers who also have ambiguous rights (although I think are better off than seafarers). Sadly as legislation takes so long to work through I expect, once the furore dies down, that nothing will change for the better and the only thing that will stop anyone else doing this is the negative publicity - which is no substitute for proper law.
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I heard that about the fines. The problem is they are the biggest operator on the channel.and are pretty vital to keep goods flowing in. I'm amazed there hasn't been a furore in the news about a huge backlog of freight as none of their ships are operating at the moment. There must be a media blackout
 
paulchapo said:
I heard that about the fines. The problem is they are the biggest operator on the channel.and are pretty vital to keep goods flowing in. I'm amazed there hasn't been a furore in the news about a huge backlog of freight as none of their ships are operating at the moment. There must be a media blackout
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Which is why they thought they could get away with it I presume? Good point in freight, certainly wasn’t aware
 
paulchapo said:
I heard that about the fines. The problem is they are the biggest operator on the channel.and are pretty vital to keep goods flowing in. I'm amazed there hasn't been a furore in the news about a huge backlog of freight as none of their ships are operating at the moment. There must be a media blackout.
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I don't think there are any surprises that the announcement was made during the Russian invasion of Ukraine when the media's focus was elsewhere. The company had likely been waiting in their moment to try and limit any damages
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
I don't think there are any surprises that the announcement was made during the Russian invasion of Ukraine when the media's focus was elsewhere. The company had likely been waiting in their moment to try and limit any damages
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Spot on it must have been manna from heaven for them.

It's ironic a twat like Hebblethwaitehe always goes on about being competitive and costs when he's on £325,000 a year plus bonuses. That's where the whole problem lies, senior management ashore. One of our senior Captains said that the company stopped having weekly meetings with the shipboard senior managers. That was unprecedented and a recipe for disaster. It also smacks of sheer arrogance. One Captain and Chief engineer are worth ten of fly by night spivs like Hebblethwaitehe. I know who I'd trust with my life.
 
P&O Ferries mounting insurance bill could push it to bankruptcy - report
by Mark Rosanes 20 Apr 2022
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P&O Ferries mounting insurance bill could push it to bankruptcy - report
The fallout from British shipping company P&O Ferries’ sacking of 800 workers via video call last month continues.

Facing mounting insurance bills after the firm’s safety rating sank to the “riskiest bracket” in the aftermath of its firing of hundreds of seafarers and replacing them with low-wage agency staff, industry insiders believe the situation could push the company into bankruptcy.

“This fall from a medium rating to now the lowest one will see P&O face a sky-high insurance bill,” Bruce Hepburn, chief executive officer of London-based insurance buyer Mactavish, told City A.M. “Combined with increased insurance costs and the redundancy bill, the company may be in danger of bankruptcy.”

The shipping company’s safety came under scrutiny after it was revealed that its employees were replaced with agency workers who were not paid the UK minimum wage while in international waters, which prompted government action.

Last week, agents from the Maritime Coastguard Agency (MCA) detained one of P&O’s vessels, the Spirit of Britain, and reinspected another.

“It’s very rare for a vessel to be in ‘port arrest’, it makes them virtually uninsurable until they are passed as safe again,” a Lloyd’s of London maritime broker told the Telegraph. “Even then, the costs will be sky high. P&O has gone from a very safe risk to virtually junk.”

The broker added that because the issue was “so exposed publicly,” third-party liability risk was “ramped up.”

Transport secretary Grant Schapps has since ordered the MCA to inspect all eight of the company’s ships, telling Parliament that the vessels would not be permitted to set sail until the crews are safe and properly trained, City A.M. reported.

Two of P&O’s ferries are still detained, with the Pride of Kent found to have 25 deficiencies, eight of which were serious enough to be grounds for detention. Two others have been passed fit and resumed sailing while four are set to be inspected in the coming weeks.

This is totally unprecedented in British shipping and utterly shameful. Even if and when they pass the tick boxes to sail trust me as an ex seaman you are risking your life using them.
 
For those thinking of booking them crossing the channel, I hope your life insurance is up to date. Copy of a recent inspection onboard.

So following the refusal by the port of Dover to allow ITF inspectors onboard the P&O vessels on Tuesday we requested that we be allowed to board the vessel and speak with the crew who had made complaints. Initially the Port and P&O denied us (myself and ITF inspector Liam Wilson) access even though we had notified them in accordance with local procedures and fulfilled security and safety obligations.

Under ISPS (international ship and port security) code I reminded them that labour organisations are to be given access to vessels.

After some time they conceded that we have a right to access in any port.

Upon getting to the vessel it was clear as day that individuals coming down the gangway were not familiar nor comfortable with using a gangway.

We established that whilst the original crew had joined for 4 weeks or 8 weeks there was more and more crew joining with 17 week contracts.

We even got access to the vessel and established the following whilst dealing with Seafarer complaints that had been received.

The nationalities onboard the Spirit of Britain are:

Officers
British
Polish
Romanian
Croatian
Russian
Latvian
Ukrainian

Ratings
Romania
Georgia
Ukrainian
Latvia
Indian
Honduran
Germany
Bulgarian
Mauritius

I spoke with 3 x Honduran crew in the terminal and explained the situation with P&O Ferries, our safety concerns and the scheduling of ferry services would mean that once they join the vessel, if the vessel is to run to schedule, given the intensity of the run (hence our safety concerns) they only have 50 mins in port and they will not set foot on dry land for shore leave for 17 weeks as there is no time to do so......the colour drained from their faces and I think they realised they were joining a ferry and not a P&O cruise ship!

The contract that the Hondurans have been issued is basic payment of $961 per month for 40 hours work per week. This equates to £748 per month for living away from family, onboard a vessel, away from loved ones on the most intensive Ferry route in Uk. Less than £200 per week for basic hours!

They have overtime hours and a bonus, but the reason they keep the basic rate of pay low is that if they are sick / injured or die then the quantum used for formulas is “basic pay”.

The fact that the spirit of Britain has been released from detention does not mean it is safe!

Let me explain why:

when an MCA inspection is carried out it is a snapshot at that particular moment in time. With new crew joining it has taken them over a month to be able to pass, with no passengers onboard and the vessels not sailing they have done nothing but drills.

With the majority of the original crew joining for 8 weeks, within the next 4 weeks there will be a major crew change, irrespective of the fact that the vessel has passed an MCA inspection it will become a highly dangerous vessel in a very short space of time with new crew joining.

The crewing model that P&O is attempting to implement is based on bringing in EU seafarers initially on 8 week contracts and steadily phasing them out over the next couple of months with cheaper labour on longer contracts from India, Honduras etc

Those crew who have returned and assisted the company subconsciously know what they have done is wrong and will also have to deal with the consequences of accepting this, helping the company to bring in a model that jeopardises the safety of crew, passengers and other vessels and will be held responsible when fatalities occur, and they will occur!!

These vessels are not safe and pose a risk to all that sail on them and I hope that the detail in this post will clarify some of the concerns, bring a sense of reality from just one vessel and convince you to encourage others not endanger the life of your family, your friends, your employees by sailing with P&O just because it has been declared safe to sail yesterday.

RMT will be announcing dates for further protests at P&O, we will continue to fight for improved safety standards and we are campaigning for a fair ferries framework on all ferries and scheduled services from the UK centred around decent employment which is permanent employment, dignity and respect for seafarers, safe roster patterns but feel it's important for the public, hauliers, coach companies and members of every trade union not to be fooled by any media reports or propaganda from P&O declaring the vessels as safe following extensive scrutiny by MCA.

Please share far and wide.
 
Magicpole said:
Another example why Tories selling all our stuff to their greedy scum pals backfires every time. Worse than them selling all our stuff, is the acceptance of it by the Muggles among us.
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Please explain what this scenario has to do with the tories selling 'our stuff'.
This shit show has nothing, as far as I know, to do with the tories, if it has please explain
 
Blue Mist said:
Please explain what this scenario has to do with the tories selling 'our stuff'.
This shit show has nothing, as far as I know, to do with the tories, if it has please explain
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When you sell then this allows top brass to pull stunts like this. The only reason they bought them is to make profit and this is done primarily through cutting fixed costs, wages, depots etc. They move to other countries to save tax, the hire cheap labour and they undermine wages and working conditions under the pretence of efficiency and productivity. Getting the same for less is what that means. They don’t take less, workers do. When high profits are made its top brass and shareholders who benefit. This has been the greatest economic mistake and is driven by greed and no thought for the future. This is the Tories to a tee. Now we don’t own fuck all. The Tories sold it all. That’s why we are going to take back the trains into public ownership. As we should with all major utilities. These are strategically imperative from an economic perspective. You still with me? I know you hate any post longer than a stanza. :)
 
Magicpole said:
When you sell then this allows top brass to pull stunts like this. The only reason they bought them is to make profit and this is done primarily through cutting fixed costs, wages, depots etc. They move to other countries to save tax, the hire cheap labour and they undermine wages and working conditions under the pretence of efficiency and productivity. Getting the same for less is what that means. They don’t take less, workers do. When high profits are made its top brass and shareholders who benefit. This has been the greatest economic mistake and is driven by greed and no thought for the future. This is the Tories to a tee. Now we don’t own fuck all. The Tories sold it all. That’s why we are going to take back the trains into public ownership. As we should with all major utilities. These are strategically imperative from an economic perspective. You still with me? I know you hate any post longer than a stanza. :)
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I totally agree with what you have posted. The fact that it has absolutely nothing to do with the tories is by the by.
What P&O have done is an utter disgrace. Now we need the authorities to be strong, if the ships are not legally fit to sail, they don't. If they have broken laws they are punished and if they go bust brilliant. I am amazed that P&O are getting so much stick and yet Manchester Airport are getting away with much the same.
Do not get P&O confused with Tory sell offs, it is two different things.

And I will, if you promise to keep it a secret, admit that I do actually read your long posts.
 
Magicpole said:
Another example why Tories selling all our stuff to their greedy scum pals backfires every time. Worse than them selling all our stuff, is the acceptance of it by the Muggles among us.
Click to expand...
Though P&O was a public company and not sold off by the government, DP World are the tories main choice for the sell off of British ports as free ports and less than a year ago DP World's Thames Gateway was one of a handful of ports that was granted Freeport status by none other than the silly fucker Grant Shapps. This offers the Port an massive set of exemptions from taxes and duties, plus as a Freeport Operator, DP World has been integrated into the Department of Transport-Sponsored Freeport Enterprise Regulatory Network, whose proceedings appear to be unpublished, but whose brief is to "identify opportunities for regulatory flexibilities" - in other words, to challenge and eat away at existing regulations on business.
So Transport Minister Grant Shapps and the tories may pretend to have been surprised that DP World, through its subsidiary P&O, chose to aggressively circumvent the minimum wage. But unless he is very stupid, they were complicit.
 
urban genie said:
Though P&O was a public company and not sold off by the government, DP World are the tories main choice for the sell off of British ports as free ports and less than a year ago DP World's Thames Gateway was one of a handful of ports that was granted Freeport status by none other than the silly fucker Grant Shapps. This offers the Port an massive set of exemptions from taxes and duties, plus as a Freeport Operator, DP World has been integrated into the Department of Transport-Sponsored Freeport Enterprise Regulatory Network, whose proceedings appear to be unpublished, but whose brief is to "identify opportunities for regulatory flexibilities" - in other words, to challenge and eat away at existing regulations on business.
So Transport Minister Grant Shapps and the tories may pretend to have been surprised that DP World, through its subsidiary P&O, chose to aggressively circumvent the minimum wage. But unless he is very stupid, they were complicit.
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Well if you put it like that....
 
So how the fuck does this work then? If the reduced wages were the only way to save the business surely this means its on its arse now? Has to be said the Select Committee highlighting the CEO's lack of experience at being a CEO is spot on.

www.bbc.co.uk

P&O Ferries forced to reverse attempt at pay cut

The ferry firm had asked recently-employed agency workers to sign new contracts with reduced wages.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
 
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