Palestine Action

[Metal Biker]

Oh, so we'll just take your word for it, will we? Where are the credible reports that Palestine Action members claimed to support Hamas in police interviews? Were you in the interviews? And supporting Hamas is already a terrorism offence, so there would be no need to introduce new legislation to ban Palestine Action if their offence is supporting another group that is already proscribed.

Oh if only I put money on you saying that....so predicatable.

Therefore, no 'evidence' or 'quotes' I could ever provide you with would you ever take seriously. You are effectively denying my lived experiences right now. So what is the point of asking me to 'prove' my stance, if you are never, ever going to accept it? You're wasting your time and mine.

You have a problem with the Government and High Courts ruling on Palestine Action, you take it up with them.

 

[Metal Biker]

The bit that they weren't banned for that you keep claiming they were ....

Which 'terminology' would you prefer, Mr Pedantic?

 

[Metal Biker]

But MCFC is a terror organisation. We have terrorised Dippers, Rags, Tarquins et al. Even the PL is scared of us.

And the media, and UEFA and 70% of Twatter!

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Oh if only I put money on you saying that....so predicatable.

Therefore, no 'evidence' or 'quotes' I could ever provide you with would you ever take seriously. You are effectively denying my lived experiences right now. So what is the point of asking me to 'prove' my stance, if you are never, ever going to accept it? You're wasting your time and mine.

You have a problem with the Government and High Courts ruling on Palestine Action, you take it up with them.

This really isn't difficult. You said that members had purported to support Hamas in police interviews. That's a specific factual claim. So either you're a member of the police, privy to police interviews in some way, or you read about it somewhere. So which is it?

I'm so sorry for denying your lived experience. How ever will you recover?

 

[Vic]

This really isn't difficult. You said that members had purported to support Hamas in police interviews. That's a specific factual claim. So either you're a member of the police, privy to police interviews in some way, or you read about it somewhere. So which is it?

I'm so sorry for denying your lived experience. How ever will you recover?

He's just distracting from the dying experience in Gaza.

 

[Metal Biker]

This really isn't difficult. You said that members had purported to support Hamas in police interviews. That's a specific factual claim. So either you're a member of the police, privy to police interviews in some way, or you read about it somewhere. So which is it?

I'm so sorry for denying your lived experience. How ever will you recover?

It wasn't a 'claim' now was it, it was a comment. It's a fair cop, I don't know what was said in these police interviews, but it was bad enough for the Police to charge them with a serious offence that got their entire organisation proscribed to be a terroist organisation by the highest authority in this country. Like you I can only speculate, and I choose to speculate it was bad!

Just remember, you attract more bees with honey than vinegar, and you are seriously pushing more people away with how you speak to people. You want to change minds? Change your attitude.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

It wasn't a 'claim' now was it, it was a comment. It's a fair cop, I don't know what was said in these police interviews, but it was bad enough for the Police to charge them with a serious offence that got their entire organisation proscribed to be a terroist organisation by the highest authority in this country. Like you I can only speculate, and I choose to speculate it was bad!

Just remember, you attract more bees with honey than vinegar, and you are seriously pushing more people away with how you speak to people. You want to change minds? Change your attitude.

How is it not a claim? I asked for evidence, and that is what you presented as evidence. When pushed, you admit that actually you don't have any evidence (that I would accept - i.e. anything objective, corroborated or verified in any way), and now you're trying to claim that it was never a claim in the first place. Sorry mate, but you're talking in circles to avoid admitting that you just made shit up (or speculated, as you prefer to call it).

It's also worth bringing up this little line:

The fact their members have said so once interviewed by Police might be a good start.

As you are one to often say to others; "read the reports"

Unless you're going to be disingenuous and claim that this isn't a clear suggestion that you've read reports that state that this happened. But now it turns out that there are no reports that you've read that state this.

Anyway, thanks for the advice. And right back at you. You'll change more minds with properly-sourced evidence than a 'trust me bro.' It's discussions like this that have made me go from being pretty open to the possibility that PA were legitimate terrorists to realising that the case to label them terrorists was utterly pathetic.

 

[Metal Biker]

How is it not a claim? I asked for evidence, and that is what you presented as evidence. When pushed, you admit that actually you don't have any evidence (that I would accept - i.e. anything objective, corroborated or verified in any way), and now you're trying to claim that it was never a claim in the first place. Sorry mate, but you're talking in circles to avoid admitting that you just made shit up (or speculated, as you prefer to call it).

Anyway, thanks for the advice. And right back at you. You'll change more minds with properly-sourced evidence than a 'trust me bro.' It's discussions like this that have made me go from being pretty open to the possibility that PA were legitimate terrorists to realising that the case to label them terrorists was utterly pathetic.

So you think i'm lying, do you? That's a pretty strong claim, have any evidence to prove I haven't spoken to people on these marches when they were on in Manchester? Do you have any evidence to disprove what they said to me? If you don't you're just making shit up.

Annoying isn't it. I'm giving my opinion, based off my own experiences and knowledge, and because you can't cross check it on ChatGPT you're saying i'm lying. Why would I even bother continue talking to you then? Why ask me for my opinion on things? No, wait you don't want opinions or a discussion, you want 'facts' and 'evidence'. All I can offer you is my lived experiences as to why I hold my stance, which you pooh-pooh'd. Because the Government and the High Court disagrees with your stance, and they know far more about this situation than you ever will or do currently.

 

[blueinsa]

Take up your questions with the government who have proscribed them.

Go see or write to your local MP and ask them to find out what evidence the government had/has.

No one on here will ever be able to answer the question no matter how many times it’s asked.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

So you think i'm lying, do you? That's a pretty strong claim, have any evidence to prove I haven't spoken to people on these marches when they were on in Manchester? Do you have any evidence to disprove what they said to me? If you don't you're just making shit up.

So you've spoken to people on marches. Then why didn't you say that? Why did you claim to know what had happened in police interviews? Why did you tell people who questioned that to 'read the report?' And now I've called you on it, you've shifted the goalposts again. So tell us, what have you heard on marches that you consider to be evidence that these people are terrorists? Who did you hear it from?

Annoying isn't it. I'm giving my opinion, based off my own experiences and knowledge, and because you can't cross check it on ChatGPT you're saying i'm lying. Why would I even bother continue talking to you then? Why ask me for my opinion on things? No, wait you don't want opinions or a discussion, you want 'facts' and 'evidence'. All I can offer you is my lived experiences as to why I hold my stance, which you pooh-pooh'd.

Well yeah. I do typically demand 'facts' and 'evidence' before calling people a terrorist, so I'm sorry that your lived experience doesn't convince me. But surely you must see that no-one is going to be convinced by the claim of an anonymous stranger on a football forum? The problem is that you haven't presented your 'lived experience,' you've claimed to have evidence, then backtracked to the point where your tactic is now "Are you calling me a liar?"

 

[BrianW]

I am strongly in favour of the rule of law. I believe that one ought not to break the law, even if one disagrees with it.

However, even a democracy can pass unjust laws. (One of the reasons why I support international scrutiny, for example, the ECHR.) It is at least arguable that in such circumstances one may, and rare examples even ought, to break the law and accept the consequences.

This is a tough moral dilemma. I happen to think proscribing PA is muddle-headed. They are not terrorists in any real sense. OTOH, it's not something I feel willing to go to Jerusalem over. However, I can see that others have a different perspective, and who knows? In 100 years, people may look back and see them as martyrs. Or not.

 

[Metal Biker]

So you've spoken to people on marches. Then why didn't you say that? Why did you claim to know what had happened in police interviews? Why did you tell people who questioned that to 'read the report?' And now I've called you on it, you've shifted the goalposts again. So tell us, what have you heard on marches that you consider to be evidence that these people are terrorists? Who did you hear it from?


Well yeah. I do typically demand 'facts' and 'evidence' before calling people a terrorist, so I'm sorry that your lived experience doesn't convince me. But surely you must see that no-one is going to be convinced by the claim of an anonymous stranger on a football forum? The problem is that you haven't presented your 'lived experience,' you've claimed to have evidence, then backtracked to the point where your tactic is now "Are you calling me a liar?"

- I have done, just not directly to you. Sometimes reading the whole thread can give you more info.

- No, as I said earlier, you have said you won't 'take my word for it', so why waste my time?

- I never called anyone a terrorist directly, just pointed out that the Government have proscribed them as such and so have the High Court. Neither you nor I have any evidence to dispute that, do we. Yvonne Cooper cited a list of events which PA were involved with that directed them to make that decision. Fact is, they ARE a proscribed terrorist organisation as of this moment and associating with them is a criminal offence. That's all i've highlighted.

- I was happy to, but you came off as so aggressive and disregarded anything I said or might have said. I even admitted it was an assumption I made, and you're using that to discredit anything I say in future, so why bother? I could give a full 7 paragraph post and you'd likely end with "bullshit!". Not wasting my time. I'm not 'backtracking' or whatever other 'debating' term you want to throw at me. I'm a poster on a football forum giving my two-pence on a hotly debated issue, you're treating it like a cross-examination. Just chill.

 

[The blue phantom]

Can someone share me a link where hundreds of thousands of Palestinian Action members are all supporters of Hamas?

 

[I'm With Stupid]

- I have done, just not directly to you. Sometimes reading the whole thread can give you more info.

- No, as I said earlier, you have said you won't 'take my word for it', so why waste my time?

- I never called anyone a terrorist directly, just pointed out that the Government have proscribed them as such and so have the High Court. Neither you nor I have any evidence to dispute that, do we. Yvonne Cooper cited a list of events which PA were involved with that directed them to make that decision. Fact is, they ARE a proscribed terrorist organisation as of this moment and associating with them is a criminal offence. That's all i've highlighted.

- I was happy to, but you came off as so aggressive and disregarded anything I said or might have said. I even admitted it was an assumption I made, and you're using that to discredit anything I say in future, so why bother? I could give a full 7 paragraph post and you'd likely end with "bullshit!". Not wasting my time. I'm not 'backtracking' or whatever other 'debating' term you want to throw at me. I'm a poster on a football forum giving my two-pence on a hotly debated issue, you're treating it like a cross-examination. Just chill.

Oh give me a break. You repeatedly claimed on this thread that members of Palestine Action have openly supported Hamas. You have repeatedly claimed (not just today) that they have done this during police interviews. You heavily implied that there was some report where we could read all of this evidence. Then when you're called out on it, you finally admit that it is based on basically nothing but a hunch from you after speaking to some people at a march. And all we're left with now is you moaning about my tone. I reckon I'm done here. Enjoy the rest of your day.

 

[The blue phantom]

Take up your questions with the government who have proscribed them.

Do you reckon they'll change their mind if folk complain?

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Do you reckon they'll change their mind if folk complain?

View attachment 163694

Gotta feel for Peter Kyle there. He can barely get a new laptop with that, never mind a duck island.

 

[Metal Biker]

Oh give me a break. You repeatedly claimed on this thread that members of Palestine Action have openly supported Hamas. You have repeatedly claimed (not just today) that they have done this during police interviews. You heavily implied that there was some report where we could read all of this evidence. Then when you're called out on it, you finally admit that it is based on basically nothing but a hunch from you after speaking to some people at a march. And all we're left with now is you moaning about my tone. I reckon I'm done here. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Yeah, that's my belief, its not a claim.

You love the term 'claim' so much, it stops you from allowing others to debate. "Make a claim? Back it up with evidence!" Except i'm not making a claim. I'm giving opinions and beliefs, as part of a debate/discussion.

But yes you are done here, fair knight! You have stood up for the justice and integrity that Bluemoon demands. Go, rest your weary head! But stay alert, for there are many others like me on this thread and others that must be confronted! Godspeed! "I reckon i'm done here" The Moral Compass of Bluemoon speaks. XD

 

[blueinsa]

Do you reckon they'll change their mind if folk complain?

View attachment 163694

No.

They have reason as a government to do what they’ve done whether you like it or not.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Yeah, that's my belief, its not a claim.

You love the term 'claim' so much, it stops you from allowing others to debate. "Make a claim? Back it up with evidence!" Except i'm not making a claim. I'm giving opinions and beliefs, as part of a debate/discussion.

But yes you are done here, fair knight! You have stood up for the justice and integrity that Bluemoon demands. Go, rest your weary head! But stay alert, for there are many others like me on this thread and others that must be confronted! Godspeed! "I reckon i'm done here" The Moral Compass of Bluemoon speaks. XD

Aye. And yes, for the record, I do think you're lying and have been the entire time. I think everyone reading this can see it too.

 

[Metal Biker]

Aye. And yes, for the record, I do think you're lying and have been the entire time. I think everyone reading this can see it too.

Yep all three of 'em.

No-one cares! XD