Palestinian Boy Kidnapped and Murdered.

[TCIB]

I suggest some read author "Bob Shepherd's" views.
He was ex sas and turned to the circuit guarding reporters and such. He has great insight into the situation, first hand much of it.
He is not pro anything but takes a dim view of Israels methods and tactics.

<a class="postlink" href="http://tinyurl.com/k9p5gt2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://tinyurl.com/k9p5gt2</a> - Link to book if you want to read it.

 

[No6]

Have they found their bodies yet?

What?!?!

What are you on about?

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

Have they found their bodies yet?

What?!?!

What are you on about?

Ignore him - he's barker's paramilitary wing.
He'll be lost without his playmate, now that the thread has taken a turn towards reason and common sense.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

This intrigues me actually PB, and as a Jewish gent (you, not I, lol) I'd be interested to hear more on this point. What is the prevailing mood and opinion, amongst the members of the Jewish community that you know, towards Israeli actions against the Palestinians. I have heard and seen Rabbis and ordinary Jews speak out against Israeli occupation and military strikes at various rallies around the world, and I find this particularly heartening. After all, at the end of the day this isn't a religious conflict, it is instead a human rights and civil liberties issue where the line between the opposing sides happens to be drawn along religious lines (a subtle but very important difference, bearing many similarities in this respect to Northern Ireland).

So my question is, what do ordinary Jewish people that you know feel about the plight of ordinary Palestinians, particularly on issues such as the "defense wall" and restrictions of movement, and the ongoing blockade and siege of Gaza? I ask about these particular aspects because they seem to resonate with historical injustices unfortunately perpetrated against Jews around the world at one time or another. This has always intrigued me; how can a group of people whose ancestors have suffered so horribly over the centuries stand by and watch a State created as a homeland for them perpetrate the same injustices on another group of people?

I hope this doesn't come across as facetious or confrontational as it is certainly not meant that way. This thread seems to have taken on a much more conciliatory and constructive tone today, and people seem to be at least finding some common ground.

That's a good question No6 to which there isn't a simple answer. To give you an example, friends of mine have two daughters, one of who is a very religious, right-wing & deeply pro-Israel and the other belongs to a group that supports Palestinian reconciliation and a just peace and actively works with Jewish & Muslim youngsters to bridge the divide between them. And that's just two sisters who are very close in all other respects.

A lot of very religious Jews don't really recognise Israel as a secular state, for various reasons. One is that it a secular rather than theocratic state. They would only be satisfied if Israel was the Jewish equivalent of a Sharia-based Muslim state. Others don't accept it simply because they believe Israel can only be re-established when the Messiah comes. That doesn't stop many living there and taking the benefits of citizenship mind you. The ones you see at pro-Palestinian or anti-Israel demos are an extreme group called Neturei Karta who believe that the establishment of Israel by political and military means is directly in contravention of divine will. To make it clear, if they thought that Israel had been established by divine will, they would probably support any action, however brutal, to maintain it and would impose their religious views on everyone.

Among the normal Jews I know, there's a variety of opinions. There's various pieces in The Independent over the last few days written by Jews and Israelis that probably sum up the range of views of this more group. Many feel it's the Palestinian leadership that are responsible for the situation and that the Israelis genuinely do their best to avoid civilian casualties. Many, like me, question the motivations & actions of the Israeli government and are deeply distressed by scenes like the one we saw yesterday of those 4 boys killed while out playing. Because many of us have friends or relatives living there, we all ideally want a peaceful solution that allows them to live securely. Some take the Golda Meir view which went something like that there will only be peace when the Palestinians want to protect their own children and secure their future more than they want to kill Israeli ones and rob them if theirs.

Many are frightened that the more extreme Israeli actions will affect them, via an anti-semitic backlash. This works in Israel's favour to a large degree as it encourages emigration. French Jews are leaving for Israel in record numbers. One thing you have to understand is that virtually all Jews are Zionists to some degree, if you define Zionism as being supportive of the establishment of a Jewish homeland, as it gives us a refuge if things ever get really bad. But as I said earlier, Zionism is not a homogeneous movement but a very broad political and social church, from secular socialists to religious nationalists.

If you're talking about the barrier in the West Bank, even people like me see it as a necessary evil to combat suicide bombers. I'm not sure there is any great revulsion among the average Jew about the situation of the Palestinians in the West Bank. Though I'd say very few have a real understanding of their situation, rather than just being callous towards it.

 

[No6]

Have they found their bodies yet?

What?!?!

What are you on about?

Ignore him - he's barker's paramilitary wing.
He'll be lost without his playmate, now that the thread has taken a turn towards reason and common sense.

Fuck me, what a fucktard. I despair, I truly do.

You're telling me he's just read that extract from the Gazan youth group's statement and flippantly suggested that they should be dead now?!?!

This is the **** that tried to ridicule me on Friday because I was actually getting off my arse and going to show support for a cause I hold very dear. Words fail me. What an absolute shitstain on humanity. An utter gobshite of the highest order. So Undies, what the fuck have you ever done to help someone who needs it? What have you EVER stood up and been counted for? ****.

Do you know what though, you jumped up little shit, if you ever find yourself downtrodden, shat upon from a great height and in need of someone somewhere to help you, it'll be me or someone like me that will speak out for you, even if you are a useless waste of flesh. Do you know why? Because at the end of the day you're a human fucking being and deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. Yes, even 'tards like you deserve the most basic of human rights.

Now piss off back under whatever rock you've crawled out of. You've got nothing to offer here. Bet your mum's really proud of you sweetheart x

 

[scotty123]

What?!?!

What are you on about?

Ignore him - he's barker's paramilitary wing.
He'll be lost without his playmate, now that the thread has taken a turn towards reason and common sense.

Fuck me, what a fucktard. I despair, I truly do.

You're telling me he's just read that extract from the Gazan youth group's statement and flippantly suggested that they should be dead now?!?!

This is the c**t that tried to ridicule me on Friday because I was actually getting off my arse and going to show support for a cause I hold very dear. Words fail me. What an absolute shitstain on humanity. An utter gobshite of the highest order. So Undies, what the fuck have you ever done to help someone who needs it? What have you EVER stood up and been counted for? c**t.

Do you know what though, you jumped up little shit, if you ever find yourself downtrodden, shat upon from a great height and in need of someone somewhere to help you, it'll be me or someone like me that will speak out for you, even if you are a useless waste of flesh. Do you know why? Because at the end of the day you're a human fucking being and deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. Yes, even 'tards like you deserve the most basic of human rights.

Now piss off back under whatever rock you've crawled out of. You've got nothing to offer here. Bet your mum's really proud of you sweetheart x

Naughty, you don't even know me pal

 

[No6]

Ignore him - he's barker's paramilitary wing.
He'll be lost without his playmate, now that the thread has taken a turn towards reason and common sense.

Fuck me, what a fucktard. I despair, I truly do.

You're telling me he's just read that extract from the Gazan youth group's statement and flippantly suggested that they should be dead now?!?!

This is the c**t that tried to ridicule me on Friday because I was actually getting off my arse and going to show support for a cause I hold very dear. Words fail me. What an absolute shitstain on humanity. An utter gobshite of the highest order. So Undies, what the fuck have you ever done to help someone who needs it? What have you EVER stood up and been counted for? c**t.

Do you know what though, you jumped up little shit, if you ever find yourself downtrodden, shat upon from a great height and in need of someone somewhere to help you, it'll be me or someone like me that will speak out for you, even if you are a useless waste of flesh. Do you know why? Because at the end of the day you're a human fucking being and deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. Yes, even 'tards like you deserve the most basic of human rights.

Now piss off back under whatever rock you've crawled out of. You've got nothing to offer here. Bet your mum's really proud of you sweetheart x

Naughty, you don't even know me pal

A) Don't call me "pal"
B) I don't WANT to know you. I know enough about you from your naive, unsophisticated and childish world view
C) Piss off back to your World of Warcraft or whatever adolescents are playing nowadays
D) Shut the door on the way out
E) Love you sugar x

 

[scotty123]

Fuck me, what a fucktard. I despair, I truly do.

You're telling me he's just read that extract from the Gazan youth group's statement and flippantly suggested that they should be dead now?!?!

This is the c**t that tried to ridicule me on Friday because I was actually getting off my arse and going to show support for a cause I hold very dear. Words fail me. What an absolute shitstain on humanity. An utter gobshite of the highest order. So Undies, what the fuck have you ever done to help someone who needs it? What have you EVER stood up and been counted for? c**t.

Do you know what though, you jumped up little shit, if you ever find yourself downtrodden, shat upon from a great height and in need of someone somewhere to help you, it'll be me or someone like me that will speak out for you, even if you are a useless waste of flesh. Do you know why? Because at the end of the day you're a human fucking being and deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. Yes, even 'tards like you deserve the most basic of human rights.

Now piss off back under whatever rock you've crawled out of. You've got nothing to offer here. Bet your mum's really proud of you sweetheart x

Naughty, you don't even know me pal

A) Don't call me "pal"
B) I don't WANT to know you. I know enough about you from your naive, unsophisticated and childish world view
C) Piss off back to your World of Warcraft or whatever adolescents are playing nowadays
D) Shut the door on the way out
E) Love you sugar x

Tut tut such anger

 

[dazdon]

A) Don't call me "pal"
B) I don't WANT to know you. I know enough about you from your naive, unsophisticated and childish world view
C) Piss off back to your World of Warcraft or whatever adolescents are playing nowadays
D) Shut the door on the way out
E) Love you sugar x

 

[No6]

Apologies to the rest of the posters who've contributed to a very interesting thread on here today, for my outbursts regarding the kid "undies".

All in all, this thread has been very fucking interesting today, and its a shame that its recently descended into petty arguments again. I apologise for my part in it but I couldn't let this guy's posts go unanswered this time. I bit my lip on Friday but I just felt he's sank a little low this time.

Please, lets try and keep this on topic and mature, like it was before Undies got home from school.

Now, where were we...