Past Managers you would have liked to see at City

[Blueboy73]

Yes but if City had gone for Brian Clough after he left Derby, Swales was not chairman by then. Malcolm Allison had just jumped ship to go to Palace.

Very true, it's all what ifs but Swales may still have ended up chairman anyway and I couldn't see those two putting up with each other long term and something would have to give.
One would have had to go and we will never know which one but it's usually the manager as was the case when he fell out with his chairman at Derby.
Cloughie was perfect for Forest as he was for Derby, a provisional club in the second tier that he could transform into champions.
It's just a shame he never got a fair crack at an established powerhouse or the chance to manage England.

 

[Lavinda Past]

Look, I have no gripe with you and I don't know much about Graham Taylor 'the man' but you don't get from the 4th Division to runners-up in Division 1 in the space of a few years without knowing a thing or 2 about player succession

No gripe at all mate. Just saying that he's hugely overrated as a manager. He got lucky as a young manager, had a few good young players at Watford when he arrived and gave them a chance. The club had low/no expectations and he had no pressure to deliver. Applied a standard tactic of punting a long ball up to a big centre forward and knock-downs to speedy wingers/full backs. He never really changed that 'system' from Div 4 to 2nd in 1st division and made very few tweaks in players over that time.

 

[JGL07]

Clough was the wrong manager for Leeds. He inherited a very good but ageing squad who were very much tuned in to the Revie approach to management.

Revie was a ‘details’ manager with his comprehensive dossiers on opposition teams, playing to a particular pattern, and very cynical. The Leeds players had grown up with this approach and bought into it fully.

Clough tried to change the playing culture overnight at Leeds and came unstuck. Clough wasn’t into the details of playing and preferred to inspire the players laving them to work it out themselves. His management was strategic rather than tactical.

It may be significant that Revie failed with England because the likes of Kevin Keegan never accepted his approach and used his dossiers as scrap paper for doodling.

Clough had effectively a blank sheet of paper at Derby and Forest. He had to deal with Sam Longson at Derby. At Forest, Clough was dealing with a Committee and they were easier to divide than the Derby board.

Clough against Swales would have been a conflict between two of the biggest egos in the game. If Clough hit the ground running on the field, I think that Swales would have had no option to go along and wallow in the glory.

Clough needed two or three years to shape the team in his image at both Derby and Forest. He never had the opportunity to do that at Leeds or Brighton. It would certainly be have been interesting had he come to City in 1973.

 

[KennyG]

Wenger, in his pomp his scouting was excellent and the football was great.

 

[frothy]

 

[Blueboy73]

Clough was the wrong manager for Leeds. He inherited a very good but ageing squad who were very much tuned in to the Revie approach to management.

Revie was a ‘details’ manager with his comprehensive dossiers on opposition teams, playing to a particular pattern, and very cynical. The Leeds players had grown up with this approach and bought into it fully.

Clough tried to change the playing culture overnight at Leeds and came unstuck. Clough wasn’t into the details of playing and preferred to inspire the players laving them to work it out themselves. His management was strategic rather than tactical.

It may be significant that Revie failed with England because the likes of Kevin Keegan never accepted his approach and used his dossiers as scrap paper for doodling.

Clough had effectively a blank sheet of paper at Derby and Forest. He had to deal with Sam Longson at Derby. At Forest, Clough was dealing with a Committee and they were easier to divide than the Derby board.

Clough against Swales would have been a conflict between two of the biggest egos in the game. If Clough hit the ground running on the field, I think that Swales would have had no option to go along and wallow in the glory.

Clough needed two or three years to shape the team in his image at both Derby and Forest. He never had the opportunity to do that at Leeds or Brighton. It would certainly be have been interesting had he come to City in 1973.

Agree with you 100%
He was on a hiding to nothing at Leeds and he didn't look like he wanted to be at Brighton.
At that time Leeds were the best team in the country and nobody would have turned that job down.
He criticised Leeds approach publically before joining and the players were never going to take to him but he was made for life after 44 days work as they paid his contract up in full.
At Forest he became very powerful by gaining bigger and longer contracts and more influence every time another club showed an interest in him.
It would have been interesting to see how he would have managed in today's game as players have more power with regard to Bosman etc. and agents taking a greater role than they did in his day.

 

[JGL07]

Agree with you 100%
He was on a hiding to nothing at Leeds and he didn't look like he wanted to be at Brighton.
At that time Leeds were the best team in the country and nobody would have turned that job down.
He criticised Leeds approach publically before joining and the players were never going to take to him but he was made for life after 44 days work as they paid his contract up in full.
At Forest he became very powerful by gaining bigger and longer contracts and more influence every time another club showed an interest in him.
It would have been interesting to see how he would have managed in today's game as players have more power with regard to Bosman etc. and agents taking a greater role than they did in his day.

I think Clough found it easier to work at Forest because, uniquely at the time, they were run by a Committee rather than a Board of Directors. Clough was able to play the Committee members off against each other.

One prominent Forest Committee member was a Liberal Party activist. Clough treated him with particular scorn.

I suspect that many of the managers from the sixties, seventies, and eighties would struggle to deal with current ‘player power’. Ferguson was the last of the ‘old school’ left when he retired. I think he only was able to continue because of what he had achieved. He timed his retirement to perfection!

Maybe someone like Clough could survive in the current environment as his key players really seemed to love him. The number who followed him from Derby to Leeds and to Forest is very telling. Maybe one or two from Hartlepool as well?

This reminded me of a City away match At Forest in the early 1970s. We were standing in front of a group of Forest supporters before the match when there was something on the loudspeakers relating to Derby County and Brian Clough. They all jeered when Clough’s name was mentioned.

My mate spoke to them saying they were just jealous that Clough was not managing them. There were reluctant nods of agreement all round and they admitted that they would love to have Clough managing Forest. Four or so years later it happened.

 

[City Man]

Was reading about Bobby Robson The Other Day and Womdered how he would have fared at City before Sky etc

Who else do you think may have done ok for us ?

Jock Stein. A master.

 

[Blueboy73]

I think Clough found it easier to work at Forest because, uniquely at the time, they were run by a Committee rather than a Board of Directors. Clough was able to play the Committee members off against each other.

One prominent Forest Committee member was a Liberal Party activist. Clough treated him with particular scorn.

I suspect that many of the managers from the sixties, seventies, and eighties would struggle to deal with current ‘player power’. Ferguson was the last of the ‘old school’ left when he retired. I think he only was able to continue because of what he had achieved. He timed his retirement to perfection!

Maybe someone like Clough could survive in the current environment as his key players really seemed to love him. The number who followed him from Derby to Leeds and to Forest is very telling. Maybe one or two from Hartlepool as well?

This reminded me of a City away match At Forest in the early 1970s. We were standing in front of a group of Forest supporters before the match when there was something on the loudspeakers relating to Derby County and Brian Clough. They all jeered when Clough’s name was mentioned.

My mate spoke to them saying they were just jealous that Clough was not managing them. There were reluctant nods of agreement all round and they admitted that they would love to have Clough managing Forest. Four or so years later it happened.

John McGovern springs to mind as a player Cloughie signed at all his clubs, IIRC he was the player that caused the big fallout between him and Peter Taylor when Peter was managing Derby in the 80s.
The letter sent to Sam Longson asking for his reinstatement after he resigned from Derby in 73 and tells you how much the players thought of him.
Derby fans will say he would have won the European cup with them if he had stayed and based on what happened at Forest they're probably right.
If you look at where Forest were pre Clough and what he did it's astonishing.
They're basically where they were pre Clough and I can't think of another example of someone taking a club to the heights he did when you consider the starting point.
Players in the modern game have different expectations and who knows whether he could command the same level of authority he could back then but I'd love to have seen how it played out.
Never scared to speak his mind and scared the hell out of the old school tie brigade at the FA.
There's no way England would have failed to qualify for two successive world cups with him in charge.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

There's no way England would have failed to qualify for two successive world cups with him in charge.

They arguably didn’t qualify for four successive World Cups!

Tough route to qualify for 1978 tbf.