Patriotism

[kevinmcfc]

Makes me laugh how many people say they are proud to be British every time we win a medal, regardless of where the athlete was born.

Yet, when Murrey represents Britain next wimbledon, people will be calling him a Scottish Cu*t

Thats because he is.

 

[Skashion]

Why sceptical usually about patriotism?

Well, firstly, I don't understand patriotism anyway. The logical basis of it is that you should love your country because you were born there... If you were born somewhere else you'd love that country... Not a whole lot of sense in that for me. I do understand it in the case of diaspora, in retaining family links and traditions. That's more personal and so is more understandable but outright patriotism of loving your country because your were born there is something I don't understand. It strikes me as highly egotistical. I should stress this is detached from the pride you can have in the contributions of your country. This is something I can appreciate. For me, I do it from a different perspective which is that I celebrate all achievements from the perspective of humanity and than human achievements should be celebrated. Sometimes I can appreciate that something is uniquely national though, like Britain's stand alone against the Nazis. That's something I have pride in. Does it make me feel better about being British because Britain fought the Nazis? No, I wasn't involved, just as I don't feel shame for the bad shit we've done. It had nothing to do with me, so I feel no attachment to it, but yeah, you can be proud of that fact and proud of Britain for not letting Hitler dominate Europe and the Nazis conduct the holocaust without reply. I'd feel the same pride were it another country though. If I was German I'd be looking at Britain just the same and thinking fair play Britain. You fought for what was right and that is to be admired.

However, beyond not relating to patriotism, I am suspicious of it because I believe it is usually used by the powers that be to contain dissent of one's own government. Also, whilst nationalism isn't an inevitable result of patriotism, nationalism cannot exist without patriotism. It is prerequisite. Whilst, on the other side of the fence, I see no benefits to patriotism. So generally I'm suspicious but I'm fine with it when it's mere tokenistic support of your national team in a sporting event which generally unites all nations. I am always suspicious of something which arbitrarily divides people e.g. religion. ;-)

 

[Anonymous]

The Olympics is a dreadful waste of time and money imo , I haven't watched a single minute of it, if being patriotic means loving your birth country then I'm in but I'm not sure why anymore tbh.

If you've not watched a minute of it then you've missed a treat - especially as it's been held in Britain which is something that will never happen again in our lifetime. Are you British themadinventor?

Yes I'm British, I don't regret not seeing the olympics for many reasons like the amount of money spent etc while we close schools and hospitals and ex squaddies sleep in doorways, I'd say the whole charade is as unpatriotic as it gets, just imagine the good they could do with that money here at home instead of finding out who can run the fastest or jump the highest, I'm glad to hear you say it wont be here again in our lifetime, problem is it will take that long to get OUR money back !!

 

[SWP's back]

Morrissey you tosser

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/aug/06/morrissey-olympic-games?newsfeed=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/au ... sfeed=true</a>

Singer claims London 2012 is more Germany in 1939, saying Britain is 'foul with patriotism

'There was no celebrating three British gold medals on Saturday night for Morrissey. Quite the opposite, in fact, as the former Smiths singer has sent an open letter to members of his fanclub attacking the "blustering jingoism" of the Olympic Games. This comes just a week after he criticised the Olympics on stage in Manchester – for not including the Smiths in the opening ceremony music.

Far from providing a focus of national unity and good cheer, Morrissey says the Olympics have created a situation in which "the spirit of 1939 Germany now pervades throughout media-brand Britain". He implored his fans: "WAKE UP WAKE UP."

The full text of the letter to members of his True to You fanclub reads:

"I am unable to watch the Olympics due to the blustering jingoism that drenches the event. Has England ever been quite so foul with patriotism? The 'dazzling royals' have, quite naturally, hi-jacked the Olympics for their own empirical needs, and no oppositional voice is allowed in the free press. It is lethal to witness. As London is suddenly promoted as a super-wealth brand, the England outside London shivers beneath cutbacks, tight circumstances and economic disasters. Meanwhile the British media present 24-hour coverage of the 'dazzling royals', laughing as they lavishly spend, as if such coverage is certain to make British society feel fully whole. In 2012, the British public is evidently assumed to be undersized pigmies, scarcely able to formulate thought.

"As I recently drove through Greece I noticed repeated graffiti seemingly everywhere on every available wall. In large blue letters it said WAKE UP WAKE UP. It could almost have been written with the British public in mind, because although the spirit of 1939 Germany now pervades throughout media-brand Britain, the 2013 grotesque inevitability of Lord and Lady Beckham (with Sir Jamie Horrible close at heel) is, believe me, a fate worse than life. WAKE UP WAKE UP."

Although sports fans may be a little surprised by the vehemence of Morrissey's reaction, an event that combined corporate sponsorship from McDonald's with the near-constant presence of the royal family was unlikely to win his favour. He has a long history of condemnation, including attacks on reggae ("vile"), Elton John ("bring me his head"), Band Aid ("diabolical"), dance music ("the refuge for the mentally deficient"), Chinese people ("a subspecies") and many, many more.

My god that guy (Morrisons) is a ****

 

[SWP's back]

The Olympics is a dreadful waste of time and money imo , I haven't watched a single minute of it, if being patriotic means loving your birth country then I'm in but I'm not sure why anymore tbh.

If you've not watched a minute of it then you've missed a treat - especially as it's been held in Britain which is something that will never happen again in our lifetime. Are you British themadinventor?

Yes I'm British, I don't regret not seeing the olympics for many reasons like the amount of money spent etc while we close schools and hospitals and ex squaddies sleep in doorways, I'd say the whole charade is as unpatriotic as it gets, just imagine the good they could do with that money here at home instead of finding out who can run the fastest or jump the highest, I'm glad to hear you say it wont be here again in our lifetime, problem is it will take that long to get OUR money back !!

You are showing a distinct lack of knowledge in economics here mate.

We spent a fortune (which we expect to get back by way), and that money went to British companies, in the British economy. Look up Keynesian economics, you spent big to receive big in a nut shell. We run a deficit as it is so if the money was not spent of the Olympics then you would not have noticed anything different, no additional money would have been spent on schools or hospitals so your point is moot.

And which schools and hospitals (without googling please) have been shut through underfunding? Are we so short of schools now that some children are going without an education as schools have been closed? Or are you just saying that because it sounds like a handy vox pop that will have those not thinking it through nodding sagely. Same with hospitals please.

As for ex squaddies sleeping in doorways, they don't have to, no one has to. You can't blame the Olympics for their personal failings.

The Olympics have been absolutely brilliant and if you've missed it then it is your loss sadly.

 

[Anonymous]

If you've not watched a minute of it then you've missed a treat - especially as it's been held in Britain which is something that will never happen again in our lifetime. Are you British themadinventor?

Yes I'm British, I don't regret not seeing the olympics for many reasons like the amount of money spent etc while we close schools and hospitals and ex squaddies sleep in doorways, I'd say the whole charade is as unpatriotic as it gets, just imagine the good they could do with that money here at home instead of finding out who can run the fastest or jump the highest, I'm glad to hear you say it wont be here again in our lifetime, problem is it will take that long to get OUR money back !!

You are showing a distinct lack of knowledge in economics here mate.

We spent a fortune (which we expect to get back by way), and that money went to British companies, in the British economy. Look up Keynesian economics, you spent big to receive big in a nut shell. We run a deficit as it is so if the money was not spent of the Olympics then you would not have noticed anything different, no additional money would have been spent on schools or hospitals so your point is moot.

And which schools and hospitals (without googling please) have been shut through underfunding? Are we so short of schools now that some children are going without an education as schools have been closed? Or are you just saying that because it sounds like a handy vox pop that will have those not thinking it through nodding sagely. Same with hospitals please.

As for ex squaddies sleeping in doorways, they don't have to, no one has to. You can't blame the Olympics for their personal failings.

The Olympics have been absolutely brilliant and if you've missed it then it is your loss sadly.

We are going to have to agree to disagree mate, from the documents I've read we don't expect to get our money back for many many years, sure figures can and probably will be manipulated to show how good it's all been for us but just take a look at other places that have held events and the state they are left in after the camera's have all gone.

The use of the word doorways wasn't literal but you can't tell me we shouldn't offer more help to our ex squaddies with or without failings but spend billions on the olympics, on a more personal note I'm absolutely totally sick and tired of hearing about some twat who hasn't had a job for 8 years being a better runner/jumper than anyone else and getting a gold medal.....like so what....get a job and contribute.

The following was in the telegraph ;



The £9.3 billion London 2012 Olympics are unlikely to deliver a major boost to the flagging UK economy, according to a new report, again raising doubts over the long-term impact on the Westcountry.

Organisers of the Games boasted that the whole country would benefit from the sports spectacular, despite it being centred in the capital.

​
But that effect has hardly been felt in Devon and Cornwall, with businesses securing just £9.6 million worth of contracts from the “top tier” deals worth a total of £5.5 billion.

Credit rating agency Moody’s has now warned that the country has already felt the impact of massive spending on infrastructure, mostly in London, and that other benefits will not be sustained.

“Although the 2012 summer Olympic and Paralympic Games are expected to provide a huge marketing opportunity for companies, the benefits are likely to be largely short-lived, providing only a temporary fillip to companies’ earnings,” its report said.

“Moody’s expects that corporate sponsors will benefit most from the Games.

“However, given the largely one-off impact of the Games on corporate profits, the rating agency does not expect that this alone will have an impact on its ratings, which tend to take a longer-term view.

“Overall, we think the Games are unlikely to provide a substantial macroeconomic boost to the UK during 2012.

“However, a number of individual sectors and credits look well-placed to benefit from the short-term fillip that the Games should provide.”

Concerns have already been raised in the Westcountry that the tourism industry could suffer with visitors being drawn to London.

Moody’s highlighted forecasts that travel and tourism’s total contribution to the economy will remain broadly unchanged this year, at £102bn.

 

[mammutly]

Well said Morrissey.

How can the country be fucked when London have got the queen and James Bond.

 

[Deleted member 14625]

Why sceptical usually about patriotism?

Well, firstly, I don't understand patriotism anyway. The logical basis of it is that you should love your country because you were born there... If you were born somewhere else you'd love that country... Not a whole lot of sense in that for me. I do understand it in the case of diaspora, in retaining family links and traditions. That's more personal and so is more understandable but outright patriotism of loving your country because your were born there is something I don't understand. It strikes me as highly egotistical. I should stress this is detached from the pride you can have in the contributions of your country. This is something I can appreciate. For me, I do it from a different perspective which is that I celebrate all achievements from the perspective of humanity and than human achievements should be celebrated. Sometimes I can appreciate that something is uniquely national though, like Britain's stand alone against the Nazis. That's something I have pride in. Does it make me feel better about being British because Britain fought the Nazis? No, I wasn't involved, just as I don't feel shame for the bad shit we've done. It had nothing to do with me, so I feel no attachment to it, but yeah, you can be proud of that fact and proud of Britain for not letting Hitler dominate Europe and the Nazis conduct the holocaust without reply. I'd feel the same pride were it another country though. If I was German I'd be looking at Britain just the same and thinking fair play Britain. You fought for what was right and that is to be admired.

However, beyond not relating to patriotism, I am suspicious of it because I believe it is usually used by the powers that be to contain dissent of one's own government. Also, whilst nationalism isn't an inevitable result of patriotism, nationalism cannot exist without patriotism. It is prerequisite. Whilst, on the other side of the fence, I see no benefits to patriotism. So generally I'm suspicious but I'm fine with it when it's mere tokenistic support of your national team in a sporting event which generally unites all nations. I am always suspicious of something which arbitrarily divides people e.g. religion. ;-)

If you love your wife, you only love her because you met her by chance: but you still love her. Had you met somebody else you would love somebody else.

 

[Brisblu]

Patriotism must be at its highest for many a year. I was a cynic in the build up but it has been absolutely stupendous, to quote Martin Tyler.

Like Rascal I was a big sceptic regarding the Olympics and for the last five years they were being called "The London Games". Well... I now have the realisation that is what the rest of the planet know them as.

I felt great pride and indeed Patriotism (not jingoism) in the Games. I has shown me that we still, in most sports, be humble in victory and gracious in defeat and like all aspects of life there are winners and losers. Not everyone needs to gets a prize (keep that for musical chairs and childrens birthday parties).

It's how you play the game. We should rejoice.

 

[PJMCC1UK]

Why sceptical usually about patriotism?

Well, firstly, I don't understand patriotism anyway. The logical basis of it is that you should love your country because you were born there... If you were born somewhere else you'd love that country... Not a whole lot of sense in that for me. I do understand it in the case of diaspora, in retaining family links and traditions. That's more personal and so is more understandable but outright patriotism of loving your country because your were born there is something I don't understand. It strikes me as highly egotistical. I should stress this is detached from the pride you can have in the contributions of your country. This is something I can appreciate. For me, I do it from a different perspective which is that I celebrate all achievements from the perspective of humanity and than human achievements should be celebrated. Sometimes I can appreciate that something is uniquely national though, like Britain's stand alone against the Nazis. That's something I have pride in. Does it make me feel better about being British because Britain fought the Nazis? No, I wasn't involved, just as I don't feel shame for the bad shit we've done. It had nothing to do with me, so I feel no attachment to it, but yeah, you can be proud of that fact and proud of Britain for not letting Hitler dominate Europe and the Nazis conduct the holocaust without reply. I'd feel the same pride were it another country though. If I was German I'd be looking at Britain just the same and thinking fair play Britain. You fought for what was right and that is to be admired.

However, beyond not relating to patriotism, I am suspicious of it because I believe it is usually used by the powers that be to contain dissent of one's own government. Also, whilst nationalism isn't an inevitable result of patriotism, nationalism cannot exist without patriotism. It is prerequisite. Whilst, on the other side of the fence, I see no benefits to patriotism. So generally I'm suspicious but I'm fine with it when it's mere tokenistic support of your national team in a sporting event which generally unites all nations. I am always suspicious of something which arbitrarily divides people e.g. religion. ;-)

You don't have to be born in a country to feel pride for it. Mo Farah was born in Somalia and look at him. As British as me.
People all too often look at patriotism as some sort of flag waving tub thumping hooligan past time. It's not. It's about having a brighter outlook too. Taking pride in yourself, your town, your work. Wanting to work for a better country to live in and being helpful to others in that country.
It's not just thinking somewhere is great just because it's where you live. It's wanting to make that place better.