Patriotism

[Unknown_Genius]

I always find it strange that people view 'patriotism' as the willingness to wave a flag about and to shout "I'm proud to be......"

All very well and good to see in a sporting context. But outside of that when people see such things and then say "Well, let's hope that this now signals a continuation of this sort of thing........ " what exactly are they envisaging?

People regularly walking down the high street regularly doing these very same things? Waving flags all the time and shouting that they are proud to be British, etc?

Frankly, outside of the sporting context, that would be mental behaviour, without an event as a reference point for it.

I happen to think that most people are quite happy to live in Britain and recognise the benefits of living here over most places. I'm always suspicious though when people seem desperate, outside of sport, for this to manifest itself as Yank style 'patriotism'.

Not only is Yank style patriotism completely at odds with the traditions of this country but it is also inward looking, narrow minded, distorts facts, stiffles debate and is generally vulgar.

Do we really have to "show our patriotism" in order to be considered people that like living here and are grateful for all the opportunities that being British brings us?

I completely agree with you, and especially that last bit. People often say we're too conservative, and why aren't we more like the Americans. "American style" patriotism, like the kind you just mentioned, is a negative thing, for all the reasons you stated. I'm sure alot of people like living here, and are grateful, you don't need to paint your face in Union Jack facepaint, and beat your chest, singing the national anthem at 9 in the morning to prove it.

I do really like how the Olympics has brought a feel good factor to the UK. I believe that sport can unite, and bring people together (just look at Iraq's Asian Cup victory in 2007). It can make people focus less on their differences, and more of what they have in common. A feel good factor is a great thing, and a country needs it in my view. It doesn't need to go down the line of a kind of bombastic, 20th century, ultra patriot rhetoric, or even worse a far right path.

 

[SWP's back]

ive loved the Olympics, the crowds, the athletes the excellent organisation, the british public, made me proud.

however i will revert to a **** when the season starts when the overpaid disloyal players in the premiership starts

I would love to have a pint with you.....going tomoz by any chance ?

im moving house this weekend so not going, however i will go and have a pint with you anytime, and SWP, quagmire and feed the goat

Gay ;-)

 

[BlueHammer85]

Makes me laugh how many people say they are proud to be British every time we win a medal, regardless of where the athlete was born.

Yet, when Murrey represents Britain next wimbledon, people will be calling him a Scottish Cu*t

 

[Deleted member 14625]

I think patriotism has overcome nationalism

how good is that for all of us in our country.

We have cheered home Mo, Jess, Greg, Brad and others as we should as proud Brits and im proud of that.

That silly **** BNP leader Nick Bollocks is tweeting that the left in british politics are abusing foriegn countries by making people run for us...Mo didnt give that impression did he, he ran for us, all of the UK

A triumph of patriotism over nationalism

The Olympics which i was sceptical about has done more than i can ever imagine for our fantastic multicultural island

We've taken our flag back off that boss-eye'd bastard and his daft bastard party. The Union Flag is the people's flag again. Nobody should ever be worried about what it would signify to fly that flag again.

It's great to be Great British, it's great to be English, it's great to be Mancunian!

This Olympics has shown us at our best and at out best we are great! This is a great country and we should be proud of it and ourselves!<br /><br />-- Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:03 pm --<br /><br />

Makes me laugh how many people say they are proud to be British every time we win a medal, regardless of where the athlete was born.

Yet, when Murrey represents Britain next wimbledon, people will be calling him a Scottish Cu*t

Probably the same people who don't support England. Sad people who can't see past their own bitterness to enjoy something for what it is.

But there are plenty of us who are always fully behind Murray, England and anything we're associated with whether they're the best or the absolute worst.

 

[Deleted member 14625]

I always view patriotism with a great deal of suspicion. Nothing against the Olympics though or other international sporting competition. I think sport does far more good for world unity than division. People from many countries coming together and enjoying themselves. It's good shit.

Indeed! South Africa made great strides forward due to the rugby world cup. It united the country, black and white. It's just a shame that the "coloureds" (as the mixed race people are called in SA) are still not part of the wider society, they're heavily discriminated against by both blacks and whites. But compared to how the country was in the 80's, it's much better.

 

[southern muppet]

It makes you realise that by and large the multicultural society is a success. Too much media focus in recent years has fallen on those who will not integrate, this past couple of weeks was a needed reminder to people susceptible to that kind of reporting, of the other side of the coin. It also shows that a British pride and a multicultural society are not at all incompatible things.

Surely that's a contradicting post. The media does concentrate on those that don't integrate, surely then the ''other side of the coin'' would be those that integrate. i.e. Mo Farah. A very British attitude from a Somalian born man. Religion aside I'd consider him traditionally British thinking.
Multiculturalism doesn't work. I don't disagree with freedom to follow any religion but I still believe you have to take on the values of a country if you are to live there.

I think whether it's contradictory or not depends on how you define multiculturalism. A 'melting pot' where people retain compatible parts of their own culture and harmonise it with being well integrated into the 'main' culture for want of a better word is what the ideal would be.

 

[DavidSilvasLeftFoot]

Morrissey you tosser

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/aug/06/morrissey-olympic-games?newsfeed=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/au ... sfeed=true</a>

Singer claims London 2012 is more Germany in 1939, saying Britain is 'foul with patriotism

'There was no celebrating three British gold medals on Saturday night for Morrissey. Quite the opposite, in fact, as the former Smiths singer has sent an open letter to members of his fanclub attacking the "blustering jingoism" of the Olympic Games. This comes just a week after he criticised the Olympics on stage in Manchester – for not including the Smiths in the opening ceremony music.

Far from providing a focus of national unity and good cheer, Morrissey says the Olympics have created a situation in which "the spirit of 1939 Germany now pervades throughout media-brand Britain". He implored his fans: "WAKE UP WAKE UP."

The full text of the letter to members of his True to You fanclub reads:

"I am unable to watch the Olympics due to the blustering jingoism that drenches the event. Has England ever been quite so foul with patriotism? The 'dazzling royals' have, quite naturally, hi-jacked the Olympics for their own empirical needs, and no oppositional voice is allowed in the free press. It is lethal to witness. As London is suddenly promoted as a super-wealth brand, the England outside London shivers beneath cutbacks, tight circumstances and economic disasters. Meanwhile the British media present 24-hour coverage of the 'dazzling royals', laughing as they lavishly spend, as if such coverage is certain to make British society feel fully whole. In 2012, the British public is evidently assumed to be undersized pigmies, scarcely able to formulate thought.

"As I recently drove through Greece I noticed repeated graffiti seemingly everywhere on every available wall. In large blue letters it said WAKE UP WAKE UP. It could almost have been written with the British public in mind, because although the spirit of 1939 Germany now pervades throughout media-brand Britain, the 2013 grotesque inevitability of Lord and Lady Beckham (with Sir Jamie Horrible close at heel) is, believe me, a fate worse than life. WAKE UP WAKE UP."

Although sports fans may be a little surprised by the vehemence of Morrissey's reaction, an event that combined corporate sponsorship from McDonald's with the near-constant presence of the royal family was unlikely to win his favour. He has a long history of condemnation, including attacks on reggae ("vile"), Elton John ("bring me his head"), Band Aid ("diabolical"), dance music ("the refuge for the mentally deficient"), Chinese people ("a subspecies") and many, many more.

 

[Balti]

The Scots have their own parliament and their Westminster MP's still vote for English kids to be indebted to rag-like proportions while the kids of their own constituents will never be indebted in the same way as they enjpy their free university education and other perks not available south of the border.

Not to mention the fact that they have voted in a SNP Scottish Government that wants independence. And they are holding a referendum on independence on whether they leave the UK in which their ruling party that they all voted for wants them to stop being British.

I'm sorry but its hard to feel any sense of patriotism toward Britain when the second largest constituent part of it is repeatedly questioning. and voting on, whether it even wants to be a part of it anyway.

A sense of ''Britain'' and of being ''British'' requires everyone to subscribe to it and that clearly isn't the case no matter how many Union jacks get waved at the Olympics.

The whole concept of Britain as a single nation and therefore the concept of being 'British' is dying a slow death and just needs a much needed English parliament (that thing which all the other home nations have) to finally kill off the pretense for good.

This isn't what I would choose but it's just the way it is.

 

[PJMCC1UK]

It makes you realise that by and large the multicultural society is a success. Too much media focus in recent years has fallen on those who will not integrate, this past couple of weeks was a needed reminder to people susceptible to that kind of reporting, of the other side of the coin. It also shows that a British pride and a multicultural society are not at all incompatible things.

Surely that's a contradicting post. The media does concentrate on those that don't integrate, surely then the ''other side of the coin'' would be those that integrate. i.e. Mo Farah. A very British attitude from a Somalian born man. Religion aside I'd consider him traditionally British thinking.
Multiculturalism doesn't work. I don't disagree with freedom to follow any religion but I still believe you have to take on the values of a country if you are to live there.

I think whether it's contradictory or not depends on how you define multiculturalism. A 'melting pot' where people retain compatible parts of their own culture and harmonise it with being well integrated into the 'main' culture for want of a better word is what the ideal would be.

Again nothing wrong on freedom of religion. It has also been a good thing to have so many diverse cuisines etc, I do feel that multiculturalism is in the style of ghettos and separatism from the mainstream. I believe the culture of the home nation is the only one that counts. Multiculturalism dilutes the one already in place.

I would agree it's probably only the definition we disagree on.

 

[dazdon]

So after years and years of the left wing liberal elites telling us that to be patriotic was a bad thing (as well as to be competitive) they have now done an about turn and tell us it's now OK, as bad as the far right for jumping on the band wagon.

But there's money involved and bigwigs to suck up to when we're holding the Olympics.

Give it a month or two and the hand-wringing degenerates will be back out in force complaining about fair play and the loud boisterous working classes.