Paul Ince Wants Rooney Rule

[Blue Hefner]

I think one of the problems for young managers(black or not) is that footbal seems to be an old boys club

Chairman make lazy decisions, usally based on flavor of the monh appoinments or through fan pressure.

Just look aroung, less Garry Monk(ex-player) where do young managers get their chance at the top level? Young managers either come from abroad or have to get their team promoted

 

[BigOscar]

You will statistically see 1 in 5 of the coaches on the course being black, that in no way should translate to a managers job at all. Anyone can take a coaches course it does not give you a right to a mangers job, there may be 1in5 on the course left handed so should we expect roughly 1in5 mangers left handed.

The best for the job should get the job full stop, black,white,English foreign. The difference being that football is not all about qualifications and experience being the requisite on an application, many other elements/variables are at play and normal employment rules do not apply.

Actually, both of those things are exactly what you should expect, in a fair system. That's pretty much the basics of statistics.

If the percentages aren't the same then it is either a gigantic coincidence, or there must be a reason for the disparity. The statistics are so different that it pretty much rules out that it is a coincidence, therefore logic dictates that there must be a reason. The obvious two reasons being that either black (or left handed) people are fundamentally less capable at managing than white people, or that they are less likely to be given jobs than there equally talented white counterparts.

Given that I don't believe in white supremacy, the latter seems to be the most likely.

Why must there be a reason for the disparity ?? Could it not be jobs are given on merit and the candidate with the most merit should get the job whether they are black or white ?? You might aswell say if 1 in 5 of the candidates were Penguins then statistically 1 in 5 Penguins should get a Job
!! Do you Think Vinny or Patrick will be overlooked for the future managers job because of the colour of their skin ?? No chance they will be bang in for it and so they should.

You don't seem to understand statistics, or my point. Your penguin analogy makes literally no sense either, as there would be a pretty obvious reason why penguins weren't appointed managers and thus an obvious reason for the disparity between the percentage of penguins applying and the percentage of penguins getting jobs. There must be a reason for statistical disparities, that's just how statistics work. It doesn't have to mean anything malicious is going on, but it does mean something is causing the numbers to be off.

 

[Bobbins]

Actually, both of those things are exactly what you should expect, in a fair system. That's pretty much the basics of statistics.

If the percentages aren't the same then it is either a gigantic coincidence, or there must be a reason for the disparity. The statistics are so different that it pretty much rules out that it is a coincidence, therefore logic dictates that there must be a reason. The obvious two reasons being that either black (or left handed) people are fundamentally less capable at managing than white people, or that they are less likely to be given jobs than there equally talented white counterparts.

Given that I don't believe in white supremacy, the latter seems to be the most likely.

Why must there be a reason for the disparity ?? Could it not be jobs are given on merit and the candidate with the most merit should get the job whether they are black or white ?? You might aswell say if 1 in 5 of the candidates were Penguins then statistically 1 in 5 Penguins should get a Job
!! Do you Think Vinny or Patrick will be overlooked for the future managers job because of the colour of their skin ?? No chance they will be bang in for it and so they should.

You don't seem to understand statistics, or my point. Your penguin analogy makes literally no sense either, as their would be a pretty obvious reason why penguins weren't appointed managers and thus an obvious reason for the disparity between the percentage of penguins applying and the percentage of penguins getting jobs. There must be a reason for statistical disparities, that's just how statistics work. It doesn't have to mean anything malicious is going on, but it does mean something is causing the numbers to be off.

The reason for the numbers being off is Skin colour has nothing to do with ability !! To actually be forced to interview a percentage of coloured candidates based on skin tone alone before other viable candidates is as racist as it gets. If i was coloured and found i was being considered for a job just because quotas had to be met would be as bigger an insult as you could give me.

 

[BigOscar]

Why must there be a reason for the disparity ?? Could it not be jobs are given on merit and the candidate with the most merit should get the job whether they are black or white ?? You might aswell say if 1 in 5 of the candidates were Penguins then statistically 1 in 5 Penguins should get a Job
!! Do you Think Vinny or Patrick will be overlooked for the future managers job because of the colour of their skin ?? No chance they will be bang in for it and so they should.

You don't seem to understand statistics, or my point. Your penguin analogy makes literally no sense either, as their would be a pretty obvious reason why penguins weren't appointed managers and thus an obvious reason for the disparity between the percentage of penguins applying and the percentage of penguins getting jobs. There must be a reason for statistical disparities, that's just how statistics work. It doesn't have to mean anything malicious is going on, but it does mean something is causing the numbers to be off.

The reason for the numbers being off is Skin colour has nothing to do with ability !!

That makes no sense. You could claim the opposite, with the slightly racist belief that skin colour does affect ability and black people aren't as capable, but claiming it that way round makes no sense at all as a reason for statistical disparity

 

[Bobbins]

You don't seem to understand statistics, or my point. Your penguin analogy makes literally no sense either, as their would be a pretty obvious reason why penguins weren't appointed managers and thus an obvious reason for the disparity between the percentage of penguins applying and the percentage of penguins getting jobs. There must be a reason for statistical disparities, that's just how statistics work. It doesn't have to mean anything malicious is going on, but it does mean something is causing the numbers to be off.

The reason for the numbers being off is Skin colour has nothing to do with ability !!

That makes no sense. You could claim the opposite, with the slightly racist belief that skin colour does affect ability and black people aren't as capable, but claiming it that way round makes no sense at all as a reason for statistical disparity

At the end of the day Skin colour should neither hold you back or positively push you ahead, We are all human beings and should be judged on a level playing field. It would be an insult not to be !!

 

[I'm With Stupid]

If racism is a reason more black managers aren't in the game I don't see the Rooney rule as changing anything in that regard.

It depends whether it's overt racism or it's subconscious racism. Perfectly decent people can have all sorts of unconscious attitudes or prejudices. For example, they've done plenty of studies to show that someone with an English-sounding name is far more likely to be offered an interview than the identical candidate with an African-sounding name, even when it's made clear that they were born and educated in the UK (men are also more likely to be offered an interview than women too). Are that many hiring managers secret admirers of Hitler, or do they simply act according to prejudices they have and probably aren't even aware of? The reason Rooney's rule works is precisely because the people hiring aren't overtly racist.

Anyway, a quick prediction. The first black manager to lift the Premier League trophy: Patrick Vieira with us. The second? Vincent Kompany with us.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

The reason for the numbers being off is Skin colour has nothing to do with ability !!

That makes no sense. You could claim the opposite, with the slightly racist belief that skin colour does affect ability and black people aren't as capable, but claiming it that way round makes no sense at all as a reason for statistical disparity

At the end of the day Skin colour should neither hold you back or positively push you ahead, We are all human beings and should be judged on a level playing field. It would be an insult not to be !!

But if there's evidence that one group isn't being judged on a level playing field, what should we do about it?

 

[Bobbins]

That makes no sense. You could claim the opposite, with the slightly racist belief that skin colour does affect ability and black people aren't as capable, but claiming it that way round makes no sense at all as a reason for statistical disparity

At the end of the day Skin colour should neither hold you back or positively push you ahead, We are all human beings and should be judged on a level playing field. It would be an insult not to be !!

But if there's evidence that one group isn't being judged on a level playing field, what should we do about it?

Ok were is the evidence ?? Name one black manager with a proven track record who should have got an interview for The City job when Mancini's time was up ?? Or maybe our club identified the man best suited for the job and went out and got him irrespective of skin colour or nationality.

 

[WNRH]

Don't you think that all these idiots championing for this rule would finally realise that the amount of retired black british footballers are so small compared to retired white british footballers.

If in 20 years time then there is still 2/92 managers in the game that are black then the likes of Paul Ince will have a valid point.

Until then your overall poor record at the likes of Macclesfield, Swindon, MK Dons, Blackpool and Notts County is the reason he is not at a club, not because he is black.

 

[Malty]

As everyone else has said.

Paul, you aren't getting jobs because you are black it's because you are shit at it. I don't often say this but - give it up. Do something else

Quite correct, he could join Dion Dublin(creep and a rag) at Man utd hospitality reminiscing old stories to the glory hunting prawn sandwich brigade

Hehe

Living in the past is what they are past at!