Pay to listen to Corbyn speak

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Nice to see people getting worked up over different pricing for black and white and railing over the unfairness of it all. I wonder why the same people don’t get quite as worked up with the following findings from a report, commissioned by the government. It found that, for every 100 white women handed custodial sentences at crown courts for drug offences, 227 black women were sentenced to custody. For black men, the figure is 141 for every 100 white men. Now that is something you won’t read in the daily mail or on breitbart.

 

[Ghandi's Flip Flops]

Societal norms on a woman’s role, her place in society, her sexuality a lot of which stems from Christian teachings. And that’s just for starters. 50 odd years ago a woman couldn’t open a bank account in this country without the consent of her father or husband. You don’t think that was mandating a woman’s place in society via a cultural norm?

Your argument fails to take into account that this ‘free choice of indivuals’ as you put it is only a free choice within the cultural norms of the society in which that individual lives. Take black footballers. In the sixties/seventies it was accepted that black footballers would never make the grade in English football. Too lazy, couldn’t grasp the concept of teamwork, too Ill disciplined, the weather is too cold (something still levelled today at South American players) and so on. So the ‘freedom of choice’ for the average black kid making a career in football was what exactly given the cultural norm and societal thinking had already pre judged him not good enough just as there was a pre determined outcome that mandated women were too stupid to look after their own finances.

Thanks for the history lesson, but please point out how much of the above still applies or happens today.
Also please reference any laws & regulations that still restrict women from doing things that men can. The only one i can think of is one which stops women currently serving on the frontline (and i think thats due to be abolished this year or next year).
Other than this, i can't think of anything in legislation which purposefully restricts people's choices.
You could argue that their are restrictions placed by family, culture or religion but organisations/government can't police those meaningfully and in theory people can easily move away from them without recourse.

And sticking with football. How many Asian players in the game today? Is that ‘free choice of the individual’ again or something else?

Okay. can you highlight any ways that our society physically tries to stop Asians playing football? Are they banned from football pitches or attending football games?
And if so, why are they stopped from playing football and not cricket, because near where i live in North Manchester they seem to have a preference to play cricket (funnily enough on the local football pitches) rather than football. Is it choice or a cultural thing? because i haven't seen any evidence of societal norms stopping them play football.

Your argument is not about the ‘free choice of the individual’ it’s about maintaining the status quo.

What do you base this on? All i want is for everyone to be treated the same, and be allowed to pursue their own choices, rather than being made to confirm to a pre-determined outcome based on flawed principles or metrics.

 

[SWP's back]

Has it not occurred to anyone in here that at a fund raising event like this the price reduction is a means of encouraging black and ethnic minorities to attend as they are under represented in all the main political parties?

Quoted in the article a Labour spokesman said: ‘The basic price of a conference pass is the same for all members but, at the request of our East Midlands Regional Board, the party will subsidise part of the cost of this year’s conference pass for BAME members to encourage attendance and improve representation.’

Is the above not more plausible than....

Conservative vice-chairman James Cleverly said: ‘Discriminating against people based on the colour of their skin is totally wrong and Mr Corbyn must end this practice now.’

Leicestershire Conservative MP Andrew Bridgen added: ‘This is racism. In effect, Labour is levying a tax on the basis of the colour of a person’s skin. It shows their contempt for the white working class.’

That’s a weak opening, the Middle was pretty poor and you tailed off at the end.

Are you incapable to being remotely objective? I’m able to an often do criticise the Tories.

You are the Custis/Castles of off topic where Labour/Corbyn are concerned fella and it’s a shame as you’re a very bright guy with some interesting points as a rule.

They fucked up a bit here and we all know it. But it’s not the worst thing any party will do this year.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

It would save a lot of time I agree...

Yeah but it wouldn’t be as much fun

 

[The perfect fumble]

That’s a weak opening, the Middle was pretty poor and you tailed off at the end.

Are you incapable to being remotely objective? I’m able to an often do criticise the Tories.

You are the Custis/Castles of off topic where Labour/Corbyn are concerned fella and it’s a shame as you’re a very bright guy with some interesting points as a rule.

They fucked up a bit here and we all know it. But it’s not the worst thing any party will do this year.

Apart from the fact you think I'm an arse, your point here is?

 

[BobKowalski]

Thanks for the history lesson, but please point out how much of the above still applies or happens today.
Also please reference any laws & regulations that still restrict women from doing things that men can. The only one i can think of is one which stops women currently serving on the frontline (and i think thats due to be abolished this year or next year).
Other than this, i can't think of anything in legislation which purposefully restricts people's choices.
You could argue that their are restrictions placed by family, culture or religion but organisations/government can't police those meaningfully and in theory people can easily move away from them without recourse.



Okay. can you highlight any ways that our society physically tries to stop Asians playing football? Are they banned from football pitches or attending football games?
And if so, why are they stopped from playing football and not cricket, because near where i live in North Manchester they seem to have a preference to play cricket (funnily enough on the local football pitches) rather than football. Is it choice or a cultural thing? because i haven't seen any evidence of societal norms stopping them play football.



What do you base this on? All i want is for everyone to be treated the same, and be allowed to pursue their own choices, rather than being made to confirm to a pre-determined outcome based on flawed principles or metrics.

There were no laws proscribing women from opening bank accounts. There were no laws preventing women from renting a telly but they still needed a male relation to sign the rental agreement. I was referring to cultural and societal norms which mandate the way we behave and interact until people stand up and object and start to change the way we behave and interact until that too is absorbed and becomes the social norm.

Your argue for ‘free will’ without accepting that ‘free will’ is always conditional. It is conditional on your ethnicity, your upbringing, your experiences and the society you live in. It is only by challeging that conditioning can you liberate people to enjoy the freedom of choice that you cherish so much. Women challenged it in the seventies through the ‘horrors of women’s lib’ (copyright Daily Mail) and today women can do radical stuff like open a bank account or rent a telly on their own. Black football players broke through the race barrier so they could be at least allowed to play football (managing and coaching not so much) and the more they played other black kids could see it work for them. The importance of role models cannot be underestimated. Maybe one day Asian players will make a similar breakthrough.

 

[BobKowalski]

Yeah but it wouldn’t be as much fun

True. Nothing more dull than having people agree with you all the time.

 

[Chippy_boy]

The Tories In house magazine, the Daily Mail, very much doubts the motivation, in fact that's the main premise of the article.

It's all very much of a muchness with the right wing press, the Labour Party is racist, it's anti-Semitic, it's an Islington trendy lefty cabal out to do the white working class and on and on and on.

For a Tory your fixation with the Labour Party strikes me as very unhealthy, I would've thought you've enough shit going down in your own party to keep you busy.

My "fixation" with Labour is perhaps down to the despair I have for the Tory party at the moment. And until that buffoon May goes, I can't see it improving.

So to pass the time, I like to laugh at Cat Weasel.

 

[SWP's back]

Apart from the fact you think I'm an arse, your point here is?

Well one, I’ve not suggested you’re an arse, quite the opposite.

 

[Ghandi's Flip Flops]

Nice to see people getting worked up over different pricing for black and white and railing over the unfairness of it all. I wonder why the same people don’t get quite as worked up with the following findings from a report, commissioned by the government. It found that, for every 100 white women handed custodial sentences at crown courts for drug offences, 227 black women were sentenced to custody. For black men, the figure is 141 for every 100 white men. Now that is something you won’t read in the daily mail or on breitbart.

Would need to see more context and to what conclusions they draw. Is it that black men & women are more pre-disposed to drug crime than whites? Similiar to how whites tend to be more pre-deposed to car crime?

Or are you hinting that blacks & whites commit the same amount of drug crime, but blacks are treated more harshly by the judicial system?

If so, i wonder why people aren't also getting worked up about the number of left handed women within the prison system. There is a vastly disproportionate amount them locked up compared with the typical demographic 10-12% within society.

Why aren't people storming the gates and doing something about all these police & judges who obviously have something against left handers. ;)