pep guardiola

[NQCitizen]

To be fair, it hasn't really taken 2 - 3 years to implement Pep's way at Bayern. They swept the Bundesliga and got to the semi's of the CL only to be beaten by the team I expect to win the final too. This whilst playing Pep's way.

I don't see his way of playing as being anymore dogmatic than the Dutch idea of total football from which Pep took his inspirations. The key is having the right personnel and unfortunately for Pep this season he hasn't had a centre forward who can offer what they need, which IMO is why they've looked toothless at times in the CL. Stick Lewandowski in that team and I think it's unlikely they get humbled in the way they were last night.

The problem last night mostly is that once 2 pieces of awful defending put the game some distance away they had to go forward even more and inevitably the 3rd goal came which was the end of the game and the tie. The 4th was just the icing on the cake to a team that had by then jumped in the showers

That would've been the same for anyone though. Ultimately the problem for Bayern was not scoring in Madrid. It meant Madrid could sit back and play on the counter all night last night. Changed the dynamic of the game completely. And as I say, I think you stick Lewa in that team and the outcome would be much closer.

-- Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:53 am --

Lewandowski isn't Messi mate, he won't make that big a difference, he's best in a counter attacking team as well, if I was up against a packed defence I'd rather have Mandzukic due to his aerial ability.

We don't know if Lewa is best in a counter attacking team, we just know that he's flourished in a counter attacking side. At the same time though, there's nothing to suggest that he can't play in Pep's system.

Regarding the comparison with MM ... honestly I think Lewa is ten times the players MM is. Quicker, more agile, just as much a threat in the air, a much bigger threat with the ball at his feet, someone who's movement and overall football intelligence is world class. Pretty much on every level i'd take Lewa over MM any day of the week. To Pep that intelligence will make a world of difference.

To play those tactics he might be better to make Gotze a false 9. Ready made Messi-lite.

 

[hertsblue]

One bad result and BBC saying rags now think they can get him

 

[MCFCinUSA]

Could see this happening too. More so than motivating the Bayern players, Pep himself looked utterly defeated after Ramos opened the scoring yesterday.

you might be better at reading the body language and subtleties in human behaviour, but I'm going off a conversation I had in NYC over a year ago.. Pep's a spent force (I was told) and I was led to believe is probably on a very short fuse

Have you read Zlatan's autobiography? Whilst obviously only telling one side of a story, it gave quite an insight into the type of manager Pep was/is.

no, it wasn't anything I read, only a conversation with an informed source.

 

[dobobobo]

Fuck Pep! I want Diego Simeone!

Sort it out City!

 

[robbieh]

Fuck Pep! I want Diego Simeone!

Sort it out City!

Simeone's achievements better Guardiola's in my opinion. He came into a club he knew from his playing days but built a new team that has won the Europa League, Copa del rey and now looks like winning La Liga and has got them to the final of this all with a group of players that would by and large not get into either of the more illustrious spanish clubs.

Guardiola knew the way Barca played, he played it, managed the reserves and then when he got the first team job he had Iniesta, Messi and Xavi, 3 of the best players ever to grace a football pitch. Not dissing his achievements which are great in their own right.

 

[Mr. Aguia]

Not looking so good a manager now is he!

They did win the league. They are in the final of the domestic cup. Final 4 of UCL. Would tear my own arm off for that level of success. No team has ever won back to back UCL. Toughest competition in the world of club football to win.

That being said in both games vs Madrid his big move to change the game is to bring in Martinez. Puzzling. Needed a goal yet brought in a DM. Not like they weren't already dominating possession so I don't get that move at all. IMO Goetze should have started or at the very least he should have come on instead of Martinez. Play Schweinstiger as the DM and Kroos and Goetze as the attacking mids with Muller as the false 9.

And when was the last time City got beat by more than 2 goals (HOME or away)?

Defiantly against us at home, where they played the false 9 and battered us. Also didn't Barca beat us by 2 away?

 

[dobobobo]

Fuck Pep! I want Diego Simeone!

Sort it out City!

Simeone's achievements better Guardiola's in my opinion. He came into a club he knew from his playing days but built a new team that has won the Europa League, Copa del rey and now looks like winning La Liga and has got them to the final of this all with a group of players that would by and large not get into either of the more illustrious spanish clubs.

Guardiola knew the way Barca played, he played it, managed the reserves and then when he got the first team job he had Iniesta, Messi and Xavi, 3 of the best players ever to grace a football pitch. Not dissing his achievements which are great in their own right.

Totally agree. Not forgetting though that they were fourth from bottom when he took over in late 2011.

As I've said before in this thread, I like Pellegrini, but if he was not at City i'd want Pep to bring stability. I wouldn't want his style forever though. When i've been able to watch Atletico Madrid this season i've seen football at it's finest and it's all down to Simeone.

 

[MCFCinUSA]

Fuck Pep! I want Diego Simeone!

Sort it out City!

Simeone's achievements better Guardiola's in my opinion. He came into a club he knew from his playing days but built a new team that has won the Europa League, Copa del rey and now looks like winning La Liga and has got them to the final of this all with a group of players that would by and large not get into either of the more illustrious spanish clubs.

Guardiola knew the way Barca played, he played it, managed the reserves and then when he got the first team job he had Iniesta, Messi and Xavi, 3 of the best players ever to grace a football pitch. Not dissing his achievements which are great in their own right.

Totally agree. Not forgetting though that they were fourth from bottom when he took over in late 2011.

As I've said before in this thread, I like Pellegrini, but if he was not at City i'd want Pep to bring stability. I wouldn't want his style forever though. When i've been able to watch Atletico Madrid this season i've seen football at it's finest and it's all down to Simeone.

Pep may be about to be all burned out, so that wouldn't gel well with stability (mental or otherwise)

 

[dobobobo]

Simeone's achievements better Guardiola's in my opinion. He came into a club he knew from his playing days but built a new team that has won the Europa League, Copa del rey and now looks like winning La Liga and has got them to the final of this all with a group of players that would by and large not get into either of the more illustrious spanish clubs.

Guardiola knew the way Barca played, he played it, managed the reserves and then when he got the first team job he had Iniesta, Messi and Xavi, 3 of the best players ever to grace a football pitch. Not dissing his achievements which are great in their own right.

Totally agree. Not forgetting though that they were fourth from bottom when he took over in late 2011.

As I've said before in this thread, I like Pellegrini, but if he was not at City i'd want Pep to bring stability. I wouldn't want his style forever though. When i've been able to watch Atletico Madrid this season i've seen football at it's finest and it's all down to Simeone.

Pep may be about to be all burned out, so that wouldn't gel well with stability (mental or otherwise)

We shall see. But anything can happen in the knock out stages of a cup.<br /><br />-- Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:17 pm --<br /><br />P.S. I wouldn't mind seeing City win the league in record time.

 

[Plain Speaking]

Manager's extend their personality, intelligence, organisation, passion and confidence into their teams.

The best managers can lift good players to be excellent players.

There is no question Pep is a very good manager, but his inflexibility to adjust his tactics seems a weakness.

Pep at the moment seems second best to Simeone.

 

[peoffrey]

How Guardiola recovers from such a humbling defeat will be telling to his class and worth. It was a real shock (although I thought Madrid might originally squeeze through) but Munich aren't looking as clinical as they were now they won the Bundesliga at a canter. He needs to make them hungry again.

I've already posted elsewhere about this, and much earlier too.. I wouldn't be surprised if he's out of the game altogether in another two years.

Could see this happening too. More so than motivating the Bayern players, Pep himself looked utterly defeated after Ramos opened the scoring yesterday.

Are we reading too much in to one heavy defeat? His record at Barcelona was exceptional and he's also broken records at Bayern Munich already. We've all seen players have to want to play for the manager and buy in to his tactics etc. Imagine Stuart Pearce managing Real Madrid... No.

 

[MCFCinUSA]

I've already posted elsewhere about this, and much earlier too.. I wouldn't be surprised if he's out of the game altogether in another two years.

Could see this happening too. More so than motivating the Bayern players, Pep himself looked utterly defeated after Ramos opened the scoring yesterday.

Are we reading too much in to one heavy defeat? His record at Barcelona was exceptional and he's also broken records at Bayern Munich already. We've all seen players have to want to play for the manager and buy in to his tactics etc. Imagine Stuart Pearce managing Real Madrid... No.

I keep on telling people that what I'm saying has nothing to do with anything current, and is based upon what I've been told prior to him joining Bayern Munich - which made me a very relieved City supporter, and I said as much in postings in this forum at the time.

only time will tell what happens to Pep, but I'm not expecting him to be around for very long - at least in a managerial career, which I'd suggest could be nearing its conclusion.

 

[ROCKET80]

Bayern were setup as a very direct team under Heynckes. Similar to Liverpool this season albeit with by far better players. IIRC Bayern met only 1 team who ‘parked the bus’ against them last season and that was BATE who beat them 3-1 in the group stage. The signs were also there the season before, in the manner of their defeat v Chelsea in the previous CL final.

When we met Bayern early in the season they were still playing direct football and we were adjusting to a new system and high defensive line. Our game in Munich almost mirrors that of the one at Anfield. They came flying out of the traps and went 2-0 up, after 20mins we were very much the better team only this time we went on to win (I’m sure we’d have won at Anfield too if not for Kompany’s mistake).

Bayern are weak in the middle of their defence (especially since the absence of Badstuber), they have no creative threat through the middle and lack a world class striker. Ancellotti is a very good manager and would have seen how a naff but well organised United side nullified Bayern and that they are prone to the counter. If Welbeck can cause them problems imagine what Ronaldo and Bale would do (and did).

I expect Guardiola to address a few issues with them during the summer, mainly at the back and add a creative midfielder. The striker situation has already been addressed with Lewandowski joining them. I wouldn’t be surprised to see both Muller and Robben leave as they don’t suit Peps system. Put players like Kompany and Silva in the positions I’ve highlighted below and they’d be phenomenal.

Neuer
Lahm Martinez CH? Alalab
Thiago Sweinsteiger
Goetze AM? Ribery
Lewandowski

A lot wrong with his post.
Parking the bus did not work against Bayern last season for numerous reasons.
1. They were not afraid to shoot from range and having Shaqiri, Kroos, Schweinsteiger, Robben and Ribery meant you did not want them shooting
2. They passed the ball very quickly with great movement to open teams up
3. They had great width from the full backs and power in the box.

Bayern were nothing like Liverpool. People get carried away with the Barca game, which seems to be one of the few times they watched Bayern last season. They played a counter attacking game against Barca, but dominated possession in many others. They switched their tactics to beat the opposition that was in front of them.

Bayern have more than enough creative threat down the middle. They have Gotze, Schweinsteir and Kroos. Moving Kroos deeper is not a bad idea, but Pep took him too far back as a defensive midfielder. Pep also does not want them to play risky passes in case they lose the ball, which makes them look less creative.

Martinez is an awful centre back, just awful, but arguably the best defensive midfielder in the world. The team you put together is not only very weak, but would be destroyed down the middle.

They should have bought a centre back this year and kept Gomez. Should also have kept Gustavo and never bought Thiago.

Sadly Muller and Kroos will go and this Bayern team will be destroyed. The core German centre will be gone and Pep will leave next season leaving someone else to pick up the pieces.

Hi Supercrystal7. Looks like we differ greatly with our opinions of Bayern and in particular Pep.

IMO parking the bus did work against Heynckes’ Bayern. As I stated, BATE managed to do it very effectively last season and Chelsea set the blue print in the 2012 final. The draw for Bayern after the group stages last year pitted them against teams that played expansive football, subsequently playing into their hands. On the 3 points you made….

1) I think is pretty moot. Perhaps Guardiola has curbed their enthusiasm with long range efforts (something in his analysis I’d assume) but most teams would take them hitting pot shots from 30/40 yards no matter who it is (with the exception of Ronaldo), 9/10 times it’s not going in.
2) They did indeed but this tends to not work against a well organised defensive side that is intent on sitting deep.
3) See above

I’m not saying they are like for like but you must see the some similarities between Bayern of last season and Liverpool of this. They are very direct, attack at speed and the movement of their forwards off the ball is fantastic but when faced with a disciplined, well organised defensive setup they can struggle. They try to go all out to score an early goal as once achieved the game opens up and benefits them greatly.

The Barcelona team they beat last year were a shadow of the one under Guardiola mainly due to his leaving and the issues they faced.

Creation from the middle is an issue for them especially with the way Guardiola wants them to play. I rate Gotze highly but he can’t do it all on his own and hasn't really got the experience of doing it regularly against top opposition and this is due the poor quality in the German league. Kroos, although a very good player I think is vastly overrated by a lot of people and faced with breaking down a team with 11 men behind the ball I wouldn’t trust Schweinsteiger to be the key that unlocks it. For them to be successful in the Guardiola way they need a Silva type player to compliment Gotze and Ribery and with a forward more dynamic than Mandzukic (which they now have).

My reason for putting Martinez at the back in that mock 11 is that Pep likes to have a ball playing centre-half who can play on the front foot of a high line. They’re going to dominate possession and with that they need a centre-half that basically plays the DM role.

If they stick by Pep and give him what he wants they’ll be feared again. The CL is very hard to win, no team has won it twice on the bounce (since it changed from the European Cup) and the top clubs are either always improving or going through a transitional spell. I also don’t see Muller or Kroos being very big losses. I can’t see a big team (by that I mean a team competing on all fronts with a realistic chance of winning things) coming in for them to be in their starting XI.

Peoffrey – I think you are right, people are reading too much into this defeat. This is a transition season for them and I expect them to be back stronger next year.

 

[Moggzy]

Of the last 20 competitions pep 'g' has contested, he has won 16 of them, so I think he'll stick to his own football philosophy and build a team in the image that clearly works and works extremely well!

 

[BadApple]

Of the last 20 competitions pep 'g' has contested, he has won 16 of them, so I think he'll stick to his own football philosophy and build a team in the image that clearly works and works extremely well!

Wins best post award.

 

[StrangewaysHereWeCome]

is coming to city in two years time, that is all ! all done ! haters plaese avoid this thread. munich is a stop gap at the moment. i will take the accolades in 2 years!

Newspapers running this story tomorrow. Rumours gathering pace.

No smoke without fire?

 

[waspish]

is coming to city in two years time, that is all ! all done ! haters plaese avoid this thread. munich is a stop gap at the moment. i will take the accolades in 2 years!

Newspapers running this story tomorrow. Rumours gathering pace.

No smoke without fire?

Maybe but pellegrini will get next season at least

 

[MeatHunterrr]

is coming to city in two years time, that is all ! all done ! haters plaese avoid this thread. munich is a stop gap at the moment. i will take the accolades in 2 years!

Newspapers running this story tomorrow. Rumours gathering pace.

No smoke without fire?

Maybe but pellegrini will get next season at least

Defo, if we win one PL, FA Cup or CL (unlikely). As Guardiola has 3 year contract at Bayern as well.

 

[oakiecokie]

is coming to city in two years time, that is all ! all done ! haters plaese avoid this thread. munich is a stop gap at the moment. i will take the accolades in 2 years!

You could well be correct young man.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

is coming to city in two years time, that is all ! all done ! haters plaese avoid this thread. munich is a stop gap at the moment. i will take the accolades in 2 years!

Newspapers running this story tomorrow. Rumours gathering pace.

No smoke without fire?

When Pellers 'retires' I cannot imagine us getting second best anywhere along the line. FFPR will be in the bin, we will have the best an academy can provide, constant supply of funds to attract the world's best players. Who would turn it down? An you can fuck off, Jose!!