Pepe

[Big_Fan]

Re: Pepe

we only have two top centre backs, thats vk and mn, lescott is a liability, boyata is no way good enough, garcia cant even play in his proper position midfield never mind defence, i say lets get pepe in!

I think "mn" is overrated by alot on here. He is still young and for is age has big potential but I still think he needs to improve and would not like to see him as my main cb along with vk. I think because he looks well on the ball people get carried away, but a midfielder could do what he does in this area. I think he gets beat in the air to often which he needs to improve on and can be beaten by a drop of the shoulder and pace.

As for Lescott being a liability I dont think is the case. Not taking age into account I would prefer Lescott and VK to start against Newcastle and bleed MN into the cb he is going to be. As for Boyata and Garcia I 100% agree.

I think Nasty is already a better than Lescott...Better at reading the game..you rarely see him on the back foot, where as for Lescott, he loses his man all too often, and hasn't got the pace to catch a quick player..Also can't remember a glaring mistake from Nastasic during his time here..Lescott almost cost us the league with one of his
Yeah Joleon is stronger and better in the air, but the game is becoming far more technical and Joleon isn't a technical CB, he comes undone against movement and pace....Throw him in against the likes of Benteke by all means...But against fluid, quick passing opposition, Nastasic for me 10/10 times

This is my point ! Just because Lescott does not look fluid on the ball and has made a few glaring mistakes then people under rate him. Ok he nearly cost us the league with that mistake against QPR but in the end was vital to us winning the league over the course of the season and look how far we were behind last season. Have a look at highlights from last season and see how many times Nastasic is beaten in the air for goals or leading up to goals for the opposition. Also see how many times Zab, VK and GC cover for him when he loses his man.

This isnt an attack on MN and it isnt a hype on JL but just find myself arguing with Rag fans when Lescott plays for England when they say he is hopeless and now Im seeing it on here. MN potential is exciting but needs to be bled into the squad rather than thrown in like against Real Madrid when a good partnership was already there with JL and VK.

 

[adrianr]

Re: Pepe

I think all clubs looking to challenge on all fronts need 4 CB's. Two of them need to be 'leaders' and the other two need to be 'younger' players who will offer competition and look to improve. You look at some of the great defences and they have all had two defenders who are more than capable of bossing the defence. Terry and Carvalho, Rio and Vidic, Campbell and Toure etc.

At the moment the only lead defender we have is Vinny and despite Nastasic's maturity he is still a young player. We are still lacking another lead defender and this is why I believe we need to sell and replace Lescott.

Lescott is without doubt a very good defender who would improve the majority of PL teams. Despite his lack of technical ability he is still a reliable old school defender who rarely makes mistakes. However the reason we need to replace him is because he sadly is not a leader and he tends to hide away from the responsibility of being the experienced defender.

Someone hit the nail on the head in another thread when they said Lescott is quality alongside Vinny. This is true but so is Nastasic who about 10 years younger than Lescott. The problems appear when Vinny is out and there was a reason why Mancini picked Kolo instead of Lescott to partner Nasty in Vinny's absence last season. It was because Kolo is a natural leader.

Signing another lead CB is a must for us and it also helps the younger defenders develop. We could easily keep Lescott but IMO he is too good to be on our bench when he could be starting for any team outside the top 6 especially in a WC year. FWIW I think Lescott has been a brilliant player for us and has played a big role in helping our defence become the best for the past 3 years. But as we have moved on Lescott's weaknesses have made him a liability in our team and combined with his age means we need to look elsewhere.

Nail on head.

 

[Martin*]

Re: Pepe

I think all clubs looking to challenge on all fronts need 4 CB's. Two of them need to be 'leaders' and the other two need to be 'younger' players who will offer competition and look to improve. You look at some of the great defences and they have all had two defenders who are more than capable of bossing the defence. Terry and Carvalho, Rio and Vidic, Campbell and Toure etc.

At the moment the only lead defender we have is Vinny and despite Nastasic's maturity he is still a young player. We are still lacking another lead defender and this is why I believe we need to sell and replace Lescott.

Lescott is without doubt a very good defender who would improve the majority of PL teams. Despite his lack of technical ability he is still a reliable old school defender who rarely makes mistakes. However the reason we need to replace him is because he sadly is not a leader and he tends to hide away from the responsibility of being the experienced defender.

Someone hit the nail on the head in another thread when they said Lescott is quality alongside Vinny. This is true but so is Nastasic who about 10 years younger than Lescott. The problems appear when Vinny is out and there was a reason why Mancini picked Kolo instead of Lescott to partner Nasty in Vinny's absence last season. It was because Kolo is a natural leader.

Signing another lead CB is a must for us and it also helps the younger defenders develop. We could easily keep Lescott but IMO he is too good to be on our bench when he could be starting for any team outside the top 6 especially in a WC year. FWIW I think Lescott has been a brilliant player for us and has played a big role in helping our defence become the best for the past 3 years. But as we have moved on Lescott's weaknesses have made him a liability in our team and combined with his age means we need to look elsewhere.

Balance.

Nastasic and Lescott are left footed. Toure and Kompany are right footed.

Toure and Nastasic is a better balanced pairing. If the roles were reversed and Nastasic was injured Lescott would have played.

 

[chris85mcfc]

Re: Pepe

I think all clubs looking to challenge on all fronts need 4 CB's. Two of them need to be 'leaders' and the other two need to be 'younger' players who will offer competition and look to improve. You look at some of the great defences and they have all had two defenders who are more than capable of bossing the defence. Terry and Carvalho, Rio and Vidic, Campbell and Toure etc.

At the moment the only lead defender we have is Vinny and despite Nastasic's maturity he is still a young player. We are still lacking another lead defender and this is why I believe we need to sell and replace Lescott.

Lescott is without doubt a very good defender who would improve the majority of PL teams. Despite his lack of technical ability he is still a reliable old school defender who rarely makes mistakes. However the reason we need to replace him is because he sadly is not a leader and he tends to hide away from the responsibility of being the experienced defender.

Someone hit the nail on the head in another thread when they said Lescott is quality alongside Vinny. This is true but so is Nastasic who about 10 years younger than Lescott. The problems appear when Vinny is out and there was a reason why Mancini picked Kolo instead of Lescott to partner Nasty in Vinny's absence last season. It was because Kolo is a natural leader.

Signing another lead CB is a must for us and it also helps the younger defenders develop. We could easily keep Lescott but IMO he is too good to be on our bench when he could be starting for any team outside the top 6 especially in a WC year. FWIW I think Lescott has been a brilliant player for us and has played a big role in helping our defence become the best for the past 3 years. But as we have moved on Lescott's weaknesses have made him a liability in our team and combined with his age means we need to look elsewhere.

Balance.

Nastasic and Lescott are left footed. Toure and Kompany are right footed.

Toure and Nastasic is a better balanced pairing. If the roles were reversed and Nastasic was injured Lescott would have played.

Not neccasarily. Rio and Vidic, Terry and Carvalho and even Adams and Bould were all right footed defenders but played together. The main problem is Lescott isn't even comfortable on his left foot never mind his right foot so is always likely to be over looked unless he is playing alongside Vinny. Good defender but we need someone who can lead when Vinny isn't available or who can add to the leadership even when Vinny is available.

 

[ninjamonkey]

Re: Pepe

More than happy with kompany-nasty or kompany-lescott pairing but would not be comfortable with lescott-nasty partnership, like others have said neither of them 2 are leaders like Kompany, It's not just about defending you need somebody to organise the entire line and keep everybody talking and in check. Kolo was a leader and Pepe is a leader too.

 

[decmancity]

Re: Pepe

Making good points here fellas and something I said a year ago but I was talking about Savic.

Savic basically played when Kompany didn't and he was alongside Lescott who as we all know just isn't a leader and Savic looked completely shot of confidence every game he played and it was no wonder he made mistakes.

I know you can't compare but you only have to watch him play for Fiorentina to see how he has improved alongside a "stronger" CB.

Back to Pepe, would be a top signing. Real won't be selling him till they have Bale and have brought in a CB I think though.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Re: Pepe

Making good points here fellas and something I said a year ago but I was talking about Savic.

Savic basically played when Kompany didn't and he was alongside Lescott who as we all know just isn't a leader and Savic looked completely shot of confidence every game he played and it was no wonder he made mistakes.

I know you can't compare but you only have to watch him play for Fiorentina to see how he has improved alongside a "stronger" CB.

Back to Pepe, would be a top signing. Real won't be selling him till they have Bale and have brought in a CB I think though.

Savic was fucking shite, that was his main problem. Garcia is just as bad at centre back. Nastasic is much better & younger but not the God people are making him out to be.

Another top defender would be a good buy.

 

[Blue Haze]

Re: Pepe

I think all clubs looking to challenge on all fronts need 4 CB's. Two of them need to be 'leaders' and the other two need to be 'younger' players who will offer competition and look to improve. You look at some of the great defences and they have all had two defenders who are more than capable of bossing the defence. Terry and Carvalho, Rio and Vidic, Campbell and Toure etc.

At the moment the only lead defender we have is Vinny and despite Nastasic's maturity he is still a young player. We are still lacking another lead defender and this is why I believe we need to sell and replace Lescott.

Lescott is without doubt a very good defender who would improve the majority of PL teams. Despite his lack of technical ability he is still a reliable old school defender who rarely makes mistakes. However the reason we need to replace him is because he sadly is not a leader and he tends to hide away from the responsibility of being the experienced defender.

Someone hit the nail on the head in another thread when they said Lescott is quality alongside Vinny. This is true but so is Nastasic who about 10 years younger than Lescott. The problems appear when Vinny is out and there was a reason why Mancini picked Kolo instead of Lescott to partner Nasty in Vinny's absence last season. It was because Kolo is a natural leader.

Signing another lead CB is a must for us and it also helps the younger defenders develop. We could easily keep Lescott but IMO he is too good to be on our bench when he could be starting for any team outside the top 6 especially in a WC year. FWIW I think Lescott has been a brilliant player for us and has played a big role in helping our defence become the best for the past 3 years. But as we have moved on Lescott's weaknesses have made him a liability in our team and combined with his age means we need to look elsewhere.

Good post.

Lescott doesn't really suit Pellegrini's system of pressing the other team high up the pitch. He lacks the pace to recover, as all teams that press get caught out. And like you said, he isn't the kind of defender who will take charge and boss the man in front of him for 90 minutes (unless it's a Stoke forward). Look at Ajax last season, he couldn't cope with their pace or technical ability. Hence why we conceded 3 and Lescott hauled off by Mancini for another defender.

 

[pee dubya]

Re: Pepe

I think this whole left-footed, right-footed thing gets way over emphasised.

 

[samharris]

Re: Pepe

I think this whole left-footed, right-footed thing gets way over emphasised.

If the shoe fits..

 

[keemcfc]

Re: Pepe

I think this whole left-footed, right-footed thing gets way over emphasised.

Precisely, you don't see people complaining that both Yaya and Fernandinho are right footed... Not too many teams actually have a 'balanced' CB pairing tbh

 

[117 M34]

Re: Pepe

I think this whole left-footed, right-footed thing gets way over emphasised.

Definitely, I didn't ever consider left foot / right foot pairings until Mancini played toure instead of lescott due to their favoured feet

 

[BigOscar]

Re: Pepe

It's not about being naturally left or right footed, it's about where you naturally play, left centerhalf or right centerhalf. It's completely different, your natural positioning is based entirely on what side you normally play, so it's not like a computer game where you can just stick them on the other side anf they'll be fine. I can't think of too many centerbacks who don't consistently play on the same side of the defence

 

[teddykgb]

Re: Pepe

I think this whole left-footed, right-footed thing gets way over emphasised.

i think that ideally it is, but when you're as one footed as someone like Joleon Lescott is, then it's a real concern.

But overall, yeah, I don't think we need to find a left footed CB, we just need to find a complete CB. Like pretty much anyone lining up in the center of the pitch, you really can't control when and where they are going to possess the ball, they must be able to credibly play the ball with both feet at the level we're aspiring to be. If there's any way to describe how we've moved just that last 5% past a player of Lescott's level (and he's a good CB who would improve most teams, no doubt) it's precisely in this way.

 

[Deleted member 52846]

Re: Pepe

I think this whole left-footed, right-footed thing gets way over emphasised.

That's true. But someone who is used to playing as a left centre half (whether he's right or left footed) will want to play as a left centre half if he signs for a new club.

 

[BigOscar]

Re: Pepe

For anyone who doesn't think it makes a difference what side a player usually plays, just watch the first two goals of the England-Germany game from the 2010 WC. John Terry always plays LCB, in that game he played RCB to accomodate Upson. For the first two goals, in particular the second, he ends up far far too far to the left hand side. On the second goal he ends up pressing a player on the left touchline, just out of habit, leaving absolutely noone in the middle.

Obviously JT is of below average intelligence, so possibly adapted less well than most players would, but it completely messes with all your positioning, your angles and your decision making. All defenders have a side they like to tackle on, so have ways to force attackers to go where they want, but that gets completely messed up when you switch sides aswell. It's a lot less simple than people make it out to be imo

 

[birchwoodgingerste]

Re: Pepe

boyata is a new man playing like a man possessed.

 

[pee dubya]

Re: Pepe

For anyone who doesn't think it makes a difference what side a player usually plays, just watch the first two goals of the England-Germany game from the 2010 WC. John Terry always plays LCB, in that game he played RCB to accomodate Upson. For the first two goals, in particular the second, he ends up far far too far to the left hand side. On the second goal he ends up pressing a player on the left touchline, just out of habit, leaving absolutely noone in the middle.

Obviously JT is of below average intelligence, so possibly adapted less well than most players would, but it completely messes with all your positioning, your angles and your decision making. All defenders have a side they like to tackle on, so have ways to force attackers to go where they want, but that gets completely messed up when you switch sides aswell. It's a lot less simple than people make it out to be imo

I don't doubt they have a favoured side, but really how long does it take to adapt? A few months maybe? I mean Kompany played on the left side today and was immense.

The general point is though, i wouldn't buy a lesser player just because they're left footed. Maybe it's preferable to have a left sided player, but in the grand scheme of choosing your targets i think there's a whole bunch of more important things that come first.

 

[BigOscar]

Re: Pepe

For anyone who doesn't think it makes a difference what side a player usually plays, just watch the first two goals of the England-Germany game from the 2010 WC. John Terry always plays LCB, in that game he played RCB to accomodate Upson. For the first two goals, in particular the second, he ends up far far too far to the left hand side. On the second goal he ends up pressing a player on the left touchline, just out of habit, leaving absolutely noone in the middle.

Obviously JT is of below average intelligence, so possibly adapted less well than most players would, but it completely messes with all your positioning, your angles and your decision making. All defenders have a side they like to tackle on, so have ways to force attackers to go where they want, but that gets completely messed up when you switch sides aswell. It's a lot less simple than people make it out to be imo

I don't doubt they have a favoured side, but really how long does it take to adapt? A few months maybe? I mean Kompany played on the left side today and was immense.

The general point is though, i wouldn't buy a lesser player just because they're left footed. Maybe it's preferable to have a left sided player, but in the grand scheme of choosing your targets i think there's a whole bunch of more important things that come first.

I guess it depends how ingrained in them it is. As for Kompany today, he was absolutely fantastic, but we sat so deep for a lot of the game that it makes positioning a bit easier as you have a lot less pitch to worry about, plus, Vinnie is fast enough to cover up any slight positional errors a lot of the time.

I just figure, we want a RCB to cover for Vinnie, there's hundreds of defenders to pick from, it would be just plain silly to go for a naturally left sided one and spend months adapting them. It seems common sense to get a right sided one instead, preferably one with a bit of mobility to cover for both our left sided ones being on the slow side.

 

[Jimfv1]

Re: Pepe

Garcia is too slow, Lescott is a good defender, but there was a reason he didn't play against Madrid last season. He just isn't good enough against the top teams. He'd be great against Stoke for instance, but against quick counter-attacking sides he's a liability, and this is where Nastasic is the better option. Boyata can do a job when paired with Kompany, but I wouldn't trust a Boyata/Nastasic pairing.

Pepe would be a good addition alongside either Kompany or Nastasic. He has the experience in Europe and would strengthen our defence. If Rekik impresses on loan, then we would have a good mix of youth and experience for 4 centre-backs next season. Lescott is a bit like Dunne, a good old-fashioned centre-back but prone to mistakes. Dunnie was quicker, but more accident prone.

On another note, the concentration Lescott needs to make a sideways pass is laughable, it is like he is back on the training pitch the way he positions himself and carefully makes a 10 yard pass left or right.