PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[Shads]

No. In essence it resets the time to file the claim. Otherwise, you could get away with things by dishonestly concealing them long enough. It is a high hurdle to prove dishonest concealment though

There is also an interesting argument that as the der spiegel leaks were on Dec 2016 and more in Nov 18. When the specific emails they seek to rely on came out is hugely important. If they came out in the Dec 2016 release the PL only had until Dec 2022 to file the charges and are therefore out of time.
I think a strong argument can also be made that if there is no legitimate further relevant documentation than the accounts (ie we show once again that the leaked emails are doctored and irrelevant) then the trigger date is the filing of those accounts.

 

[nmc]

The other crucial point is whether Pinto was a Robin Hood whistle-blower, or merely a hacker & thief who sold his ill-gotten gains on.

Did Pinto REALLY hack City because he could?

Did Pinto hack City because he was truly concerned about our criminality? If so, why?

OR, did he do it purely for monetary gain? If so, did he hack City to sell-on the data, or was he engaged by a third party to get dirt on City?

His past would tell you he’s no Robin Hood he’s a dirty extorting scoundrel who the media have miscast for their own purposes.

 

[Maly]

This is really great advice. It took me a long time to realise it but it is liberating when you just don't engage with people who are provocative and stupid. The moral high ground is always the best place to be. I haven't mastered it with tailgating fools on the road yet but I am working on it.

Always remember, Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience

 

[SilverFox2]

I hope I'm not being excessively hubristic here but my view is that the charges, while potentially serious in theory, are actually thin.

The image rights stuff (which was the one I was originally most concerned about) was being discussed with us, by UEFA, in 2015. I can't imagine it wasn't also known to the PL therefore, who were the FFP licensor. If UEFA felt we were trying to defraud them (in the criminal sense) then they'd have charged us back in 2018. They didn't though.

With Mancini's contract, that was around 1% of our 2010-11 revenue and about 0.75% of our 2012 revenue. It's hardly Enron levels.

CAS has already ruled that our Etihad sponsorship (a) was broadly fair value and (b) not funded by ADUG, but by the Abu Dhabi government. So I can't see them having much luck with Aabar, that might have been one of the time-barred sponsorships. And Etisalat, the other, had already been discussed with UEFA, according to the CAS output.

Be assured Colin that we all appreciate that your views on FFP and other technical areas are sound and well researched.
Hubris is left to the former untouchables who are gradually being exposed in the ongoing battles.

 

[Shads]

Balance of Probability?

There is a well conceived belief that in the 'balance of probability' there is somewhere within the Universe 'alien life'. That said however, and in the 'absence of evidence' to prove otherwise, you cannot say that anyone who claims differently is incorrect!

And that in a nutshell sums this up!

If City can produce audited documentation that proves none of this occurred, then despite any amount of others wanting to believe to the contrary, City will be found innocent; There simply is no legal or viable alternative for the panel, irrespective of who they may support.

We don’t even have to do that. The burden of proof is on the PL. If they cannot prove with cogent evidence that what they say happened did happen, then we can argue there is no case to answer. I am entirely sure that we will have the evidence available if they can even show a hint of it though.
Mud slinging definitely works in the media but is far less successful in a legal arena.

 

[Maly]

Understandable though. As City fans and for those of us in the legal field we have a clear Interest In reading it. Most fans of other clubs will not. Let’s face it most of the fans in here relied on us lawyers to read digest and break it down for them. The media will only take whatever out of context quotes suit their agenda, it is likely the only parts of the CAS judgment most fans know about is therefore what the media reports. It will be no different here.

@Ric might be worth having a no reply sticky thread about the CAS judgement broken down by one or more of our resident lawyers, if anyone is prepared to do it?

I’d certainly find it really interesting & useful

 

[Paladin]

Understandable though. As City fans and for those of us in the legal field we have a clear Interest In reading it. Most fans of other clubs will not. Let’s face it most of the fans in here relied on us lawyers to read digest and break it down for them. The media will only take whatever out of context quotes suit their agenda, it is likely the only parts of the CAS judgment most fans know about is therefore what the media reports. It will be no different here.

And we fans are very grateful to our learned friends for their invaluable insight. I'm convinced that by far the strongest knowledge base about FFP sits on Bluemoon. Also grateful that you tell it how it is, with a cautious optimism about how it might end up.

 

[dario2739]

The other crucial point is whether Pinto was a Robin Hood whistle-blower, or merely a hacker & thief who sold his ill-gotten gains on.

Did Pinto REALLY hack City because he could?

Did Pinto hack City because he was truly concerned about our criminality? If so, why?

OR, did he do it purely for monetary gain? If so, did he hack City to sell-on the data, or was he engaged by a third party to get dirt on City?

This - as far as I know - has never been answered.
Let's face it, if he wanted to hack a club for the exposure or for blackmail/monetary gain, why City? Surely the G14 clubs would have been a better target?
He's obviously been hired by somebody to target us specifically - I don't believe it was random... we need to find out who!

 

[Paladin]

This - as far as I know - has never been answered.
Let's face it, if he wanted to hack a club for the exposure or for blackmail/monetary gain, why City? Surely the G14 clubs would have been a better target?
He's obviously been hired by somebody to target us specifically - I don't believe it was random... we need to find out who!

I'll try and hack his computer. rui.pinto@gmail.po is it?

 

[Maly]

This - as far as I know - has never been answered.
Let's face it, if he wanted to hack a club for the exposure or for blackmail/monetary gain, why City? Surely the G14 clubs would have been a better target?
He's obviously been hired by somebody to target us specifically - I don't believe it was random... we need to find out who!

Pretty certain he hacked shit loads of football clubs including G14 hence the term ‘football leaks’, not just us mate

He also did banks as well if I remember correctly. Seems he’s an extortionist to me