PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

WRicko said:
I am somewhat convinced that this is all
smoke and mirrors because of what you say. Which I already thought.

You are correct in a sense that the Premier League are not accusing us of fraud. They don’t use the words.

You are also correct to say that they would should or would have to report us to someone if they thought we where committing fraud

However the above does not change the fact that inflating revenue hiding costs as we have been accused of for FFP or other reasons (and they are not separate ) is false accounting. The legal experts on here will explain it better than me but my understanding of what they have said is this is a type of fraud. If this cooking the books also lead to a gain however small financial or otherwise this would amount to proper fraud. Could be gain in footballing terms financial gain or even reputational. I think it’s fairly easy to claim it lead to this gain.

So I go back to my point the charges amount to accusations of fraud. Please tell me where I am wrong.

I would like to know where the experts on this forum say I have gone wrong.

The above is why I think it might be smoke and mirrors you don’t in affect accuse someone of fraud without actually coming out and saying it without referring it on to the proper authorities. Unless it’s all made up unless of course something is going on in the background with the police that we do not know about
Click to expand...
False accounting would be a problem yes but I don't think that is an accusation. There is a difference between creative accounting and false accounting. False accounting would be fraud, IE, you have lied about a transaction. I don't think that this is the case because the legal authorities such as the Serious Fraud Office or HMRC would be involved. The taxman would certainly be dropping the hammer on us.

The Premier League again is in no position to judge our accounts, as far as they're concerned our accounts are fully legal and audited because city are legally obligated under UK law to ensure that happens. The Premier League however has its own rules on accounting reporting and that's where the problem lies. Structuring deals to get around those rules isn't false or illegal accounting, it's creative accounting. Failure to comply and disclose these deals according to those rules is what we're accused of.

On creative accounting alone you could easily argue these same accusations against any club in the Premier League. Why do you think that the parent business who owns United is registered in the Cayman Islands? Why is the parent of Liverpool registered in Delaware USA? The reason for this is to avoid tax and keep the books out of UK scrutiny which is just another form of creative accounting.

I haven't read into all of the supposed breaches but it seems that they often come down to an extremely complicated web of transactions which probably aren't seen in the accounts. This doesn't mean that they're illegal, it may just mean that clearly certain transactions have been structured in such a way to avoid the rules let's say.
 
inbetween said:
False accounting would be a problem yes but I don't think that is an accusation. There is a difference between creative accounting and false accounting. False accounting would be fraud, IE, you have lied about a transaction. I don't think that this is the case because the legal authorities such as the Serious Fraud Office or HMRC would be involved. The taxman would certainly be dropping the hammer on us.

The Premier League again is in no position to judge our accounts, as far as they're concerned our accounts are fully legal and audited because city are legally obligated under UK law to ensure that happens. The Premier League however has its own rules on accounting reporting and that's where the problem lies. Structuring deals to get around those rules isn't false or illegal accounting, it's creative accounting. Failure to comply and disclose these deals according to those rules is what we're accused of.

On creative accounting alone you could easily argue these same accusations against any club in the Premier League. Why do you think that the parent business who owns United is registered in the Cayman Islands? Why is the parent of Liverpool registered in Delaware USA? The reason for this is to avoid tax and keep the books out of UK scrutiny which is just another form of creative accounting.

I haven't read into all of the supposed breaches but it seems that they often come down to an extremely complicated web of transactions which probably aren't seen in the accounts. This doesn't mean that they're illegal, it may just mean that clearly certain transactions have been structured in such a way to avoid the rules let's say.
Click to expand...

We don’t know the precise details of the charges but they use terms akin to false accounting such as in accurate etc. ok this might only mean in accurate in relation to FFP but I don’t believe it is and if it where that would likely only be the case of something that was contested like with Everton certain costs etc this would have be n discovered and argued over at the time like Everton

We assume these charges relate to hacked emails the hacked emails refer to what the media call inflated sponsorship they are in fact actually under the table payments from sheik and also off the books payments to players managers and agents. I think any of this would constitute cooking the books fraud etc
 
Prophet of Doom said:
It’s a big if whether we get expelled - but I’m quite sure the red teams don’t give a flying fuck about what happens to City or Chelsea.

The PL will survive with or without us - and I’m quite sure most other teams will be delighted by their improved positions.

The red teams will be guaranteed trophies and Champs league qualification so they won’t be arsed.

The charges were pressed with the sole purpose of getting rid of City. Why would they suddenly have cold feet about it ?
Click to expand...
Because you don’t call a wealthy Prince businessman who has regular meetings with heads of states including Sunak and Charlie corrupt when he’s doling out the fighter contracts to BAE Systems for one thing,
 
WRicko said:
We don’t know the precise details of the charges but they use terms akin to false accounting such as in accurate etc. ok this might only mean in accurate in relation to FFP but I don’t believe it is and if it where that would likely only be the case of something that was contested like with Everton certain costs etc this would have be n discovered and argued over at the time like Everton

We assume these charges relate to hacked emails the hacked emails refer to what the media call inflated sponsorship they are in fact actually under the table payments from sheik and also off the books payments to players managers and agents. I think any of this would constitute cooking the books fraud etc
Click to expand...

The emails don’t stand up unless they can produce a transaction to confirm payments were funded via Mansour and directed through related parties sponsorship deals. They wont have that and the sponsors can produce transactions that show they paid the correct amounts of money. Irrefutable evidence trumping opinion.
 
The argument that City have not opposed FFP and must support it because we take part in all UEFA tournaments seems to be resurfacing. It is not correct. When he bought the club Sheikh Mansour was told that UEFA would be introducing measures of financial regulation and control. The response given was that City considered these rules unenforceable, but as he intended the club to be in a position to maintain itself at the top table from its own resources nos problems were foreseen. The regulations (FFP) were introduced without any vote and the only body consulted was the ECA, which means no opportunity for opposition was given. When the PL introduced similar regulations, proposed by Manchester United, City did oppose them but they passed because Reading, already relegated, abstained. The strange thing is that Reading's abstention was not counted in favour of the status quo and the proposal was allowed to pass. When City were sanctioned for failing to operate within the restrictions the club insisted that part of the settlement included its refusal to accept that it had broken the regulations and it only "took the pinch" because the dispute was settled once and for all and breaking even would never be a problem again. This does not, however, seem to be at all directly relevant to the present discussion because we are not accused of failing FFP.

City's assertion that we would always show a profit has been accepted by the licensing authority but we are accused of disguising owner investment as sponsorship. The CAS judgement of 2020 states quite baldly that City did not do this and it is hard to see what evidence the PL has that UEFA did not. PB and others have led us to believe that there is no evidence for this and that the charges themselves place great strain on credibility. And that's the state of play at the moment. Questions of who will/will have to/should resign in the event of a guilty verdict seem a long way from arising.
 
I've worked my nuts of this year, I'm now fortunate enough to be able to take 3 weeks off and fly down under to see family for crimbo. I know they have the internet in Oz but I've decided to take a mini break from BMF. I'll be back, more than ready for keyboard warfare in 2024.

To summarize, the task ahead for the PL shysters, they have to prove on the balance of probabilities that:-

The owners, employees, executives, accountants, auditors, lawyers of MCFC
conspired with the owners, employees, executives, accountants, auditors, lawyers of ETIHAD AIRWAYS and the the owners, employees, executives, accountants, auditors, lawyers of ETISALAT to fraudulently create a football team capable of winning the EPL and thereby smashing the rag/dip/tarq cosy-cartel

Refs:


Governance

We’re a global technology and investment group drawn to the future and the limitless possibilities we see in it. This restless curiosity urges us forward to search for more, for new, for better. Creating something greater powered and made possible by all of us.
www.eand.com www.eand.com
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top
✖
  AdBlock Detected
Bluemoon relies on advertising to pay our hosting fees. Please support the site by disabling your ad blocking software to help keep the forum sustainable. Thanks.