PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[halfcenturyup]

Assuming the evidence is the second tranche of emails that were released. We dont know what evidence was provided to them in response to that.

Well yes, we can only comment on the "evidence" that we know is out there. I suppose it's possible that the PL has more but I really don't care about the minor charges. If the PL can't prove the major charge (the funding of the Etihad sponsorship) then a lot of the more serious stuff (for example: accounts that don't show a true and fair view, UEFA and PL FFP) fall away. I really don't care if we are "guilty" of splitting salaries, image right issues, youth player nonsense and the rest. All clubs stretch the rules.

I suppose it's possible that the PL has more evidence than we know about. But for the sponsorship, I just don't see how anything definitely incriminating will be in the club's books as, if it exists at all, it will all be held externally and this is where the point on statements and reputations comes in.

I also suppose it's possible, if the club has done as alleged, that executives have been careless in leaving some breadcrumbs lying around the club's records that could act as supporting evidence but it would be mind-bogglingly stupid to leave anything in the club's records that would definitely prove the PL's allegations. The club's executives have clearly been careless a few times but I don't think they are stupid.

 

[bridgeno1]

I watched AFTV this evening to catch up on the transfer rumours and I was disappointed to see AFTV banging on about the charges as that hasn't been part of the agenda of AFTV all season. That being said there were City fans on here having a dig at the Thomas Partey accusations and in both cases it's innocent until proven guilty. You can't give it out to him and then complain that other fans give it to City. Not until the proper legal process has been allowed to take course.

Re the City charges, 115 is misleading as the reality is it will boil down to a few more serious charges and a bunch of other much more trivial misdemeanours. Bear in mind the traditional top 4 sides had decades to get their shit together and spend a fortune on building their clubs so if, big IF, City are guilty, it will be of doing something to develop the club in a way that the other big sides have historically been allowed to do but now times have changed and newly-monied clubs are unable to, and City bending the rules and concealing the true nature of events leading up to City being able to invest in the club.

From what I'm reading and hearing it is likely some sort of deal gets done in the background, City get a 20 point deduction and a big fine - will mean they won't win the league that season but still qualify for CL. The hysteria that City get relegated to the National League or whatever is overkill - not in a million years will that happen and it's in the club's interests to wrap things up quickly and I'm sure the lawyers will be advising them that as for sure with 115 charges to go through some of them will stick, even though there's an element of subjectivity to them all.

Note also, contrary to some of the posts in this thread, City were NOT cleared by UEFA. They were found guilty however there is a statute of limitations that applies when going to the European CAS meaning evidence older than a specified period of time cannot be used and therefore the charges were not allowed to stick. PL rules are different and evidence can be used from any period of time which is why I think the PL will get some of them to stick. But none of the charges are as serious as the ones Juventus faced for basically match-fixing and their penalty was relegation to the next division down. So there's nothing in my mind that makes me think City won't be able to do a deal behind the scenes with a one-off points deduction and a fine.

As a Gooner I'm genuinely not bitter at all - we've historically had the opportunity to spend whatever we wanted - we chose not to (despite at the time having a corrupt Putin stooge in the form of Alisher Usmanov as a major shareholder who wanted to splash his blood money around). Other clubs like Chelsea and the Rags did get their wallets out though and now they don't like it when someone else wants to spend their money on their club. Football has always been. That way in the PL era - heck even Blackburn bought a league title. Since then more clubs have come in with the readies to compete and build the infrastructure to take the club to the next level, set up sustainable infrastructure for the future, sustain higher revenue channel opportunities and so on.

Chelsea spent dirty Russian money on building that club. Money with blood on it.

And as for the Dippers being up in arms - let's just reflect on the fact that their club is responsible for the murder of 39 Juventus fans, responsible for English teams being banned from Europe, responsible for attacks on opponents team coaches. If there ever was any justice then that club would be permanently banned from Europe and would have been relegated by the FA for giving English football a bad name in the 80s. So I'd advise them to shut the fuck up.

 

[argyle]

There hasn’t been one article, radio show or tv show promoting the idea we might be innocent. There’s been thousands saying we are guilty.

It’s sad that after 16 years of ownership we have virtually zero support from any corner of the media, and nobody reporting that we might actually be innocent.

...because our media department (in terms of fighting back and setting the agenda) isn't fit for purpose.

It's been said on here before that some in the media department are fine with what the fanzines writers come out with.

I know through someone who used to work at the legal department that our media team are quite chummy with the journalists that write shit about us.

After the CAS verdict the club should have taken a hardline with anyone casting doubt on it.

The cheats and sportswashing jibes have stuck because our media department is nowhere to be seen.

 

[argyle]

Saw a fan "have your say post" on BBC website today about Maresca where the guy says all hes done is manage Citys PL2 Cheat Mode team.
Someone at the BBC has approved that, why do we not take some action?
Fergie had the right way of dealing with them, think we need to grow a pair.

The club thinks being quiet and ignoring it will make it go away in time.

It doesn't, It just allows the void to be filled with bile and lies about the club.

 

[Shirley]

I watched AFTV this evening to catch up on the transfer rumours and I was disappointed to see AFTV banging on about the charges as that hasn't been part of the agenda of AFTV all season. That being said there were City fans on here having a dig at the Thomas Partey accusations and in both cases it's innocent until proven guilty. You can't give it out to him and then complain that other fans give it to City. Not until the proper legal process has been allowed to take course.

Re the City charges, 115 is misleading as the reality is it will boil down to a few more serious charges and a bunch of other much more trivial misdemeanours. Bear in mind the traditional top 4 sides had decades to get their shit together and spend a fortune on building their clubs so if, big IF, City are guilty, it will be of doing something to develop the club in a way that the other big sides have historically been allowed to do but now times have changed and newly-monied clubs are unable to, and City bending the rules and concealing the true nature of events leading up to City being able to invest in the club.

From what I'm reading and hearing it is likely some sort of deal gets done in the background, City get a 20 point deduction and a big fine - will mean they won't win the league that season but still qualify for CL. The hysteria that City get relegated to the National League or whatever is overkill - not in a million years will that happen and it's in the club's interests to wrap things up quickly and I'm sure the lawyers will be advising them that as for sure with 115 charges to go through some of them will stick, even though there's an element of subjectivity to them all.

Note also, contrary to some of the posts in this thread, City were NOT cleared by UEFA. They were found guilty however there is a statute of limitations that applies when going to the European CAS meaning evidence older than a specified period of time cannot be used and therefore the charges were not allowed to stick. PL rules are different and evidence can be used from any period of time which is why I think the PL will get some of them to stick. But none of the charges are as serious as the ones Juventus faced for basically match-fixing and their penalty was relegation to the next division down. So there's nothing in my mind that makes me think City won't be able to do a deal behind the scenes with a one-off points deduction and a fine.

As a Gooner I'm genuinely not bitter at all - we've historically had the opportunity to spend whatever we wanted - we chose not to (despite at the time having a corrupt Putin stooge in the form of Alisher Usmanov as a major shareholder who wanted to splash his blood money around). Other clubs like Chelsea and the Rags did get their wallets out though and now they don't like it when someone else wants to spend their money on their club. Football has always been. That way in the PL era - heck even Blackburn bought a league title. Since then more clubs have come in with the readies to compete and build the infrastructure to take the club to the next level, set up sustainable infrastructure for the future, sustain higher revenue channel opportunities and so on.

Chelsea spent dirty Russian money on building that club. Money with blood on it.

And as for the Dippers being up in arms - let's just reflect on the fact that their club is responsible for the murder of 39 Juventus fans, responsible for English teams being banned from Europe, responsible for attacks on opponents team coaches. If there ever was any justice then that club would be permanently banned from Europe and would have been relegated by the FA for giving English football a bad name in the 80s. So I'd advise them to shut the fuck up.

Interesting post but for balance you failed to mention the history of corruption your club has, recent and past. I’m sure spuds fans are always reminding you also.

 

[halfcenturyup]

I watched AFTV this evening to catch up on the transfer rumours and I was disappointed to see AFTV banging on about the charges as that hasn't been part of the agenda of AFTV all season. That being said there were City fans on here having a dig at the Thomas Partey accusations and in both cases it's innocent until proven guilty. You can't give it out to him and then complain that other fans give it to City. Not until the proper legal process has been allowed to take course.

Re the City charges, 115 is misleading as the reality is it will boil down to a few more serious charges and a bunch of other much more trivial misdemeanours. Bear in mind the traditional top 4 sides had decades to get their shit together and spend a fortune on building their clubs so if, big IF, City are guilty, it will be of doing something to develop the club in a way that the other big sides have historically been allowed to do but now times have changed and newly-monied clubs are unable to, and City bending the rules and concealing the true nature of events leading up to City being able to invest in the club.

From what I'm reading and hearing it is likely some sort of deal gets done in the background, City get a 20 point deduction and a big fine - will mean they won't win the league that season but still qualify for CL. The hysteria that City get relegated to the National League or whatever is overkill - not in a million years will that happen and it's in the club's interests to wrap things up quickly and I'm sure the lawyers will be advising them that as for sure with 115 charges to go through some of them will stick, even though there's an element of subjectivity to them all.

Note also, contrary to some of the posts in this thread, City were NOT cleared by UEFA. They were found guilty however there is a statute of limitations that applies when going to the European CAS meaning evidence older than a specified period of time cannot be used and therefore the charges were not allowed to stick. PL rules are different and evidence can be used from any period of time which is why I think the PL will get some of them to stick. But none of the charges are as serious as the ones Juventus faced for basically match-fixing and their penalty was relegation to the next division down. So there's nothing in my mind that makes me think City won't be able to do a deal behind the scenes with a one-off points deduction and a fine.

As a Gooner I'm genuinely not bitter at all - we've historically had the opportunity to spend whatever we wanted - we chose not to (despite at the time having a corrupt Putin stooge in the form of Alisher Usmanov as a major shareholder who wanted to splash his blood money around). Other clubs like Chelsea and the Rags did get their wallets out though and now they don't like it when someone else wants to spend their money on their club. Football has always been. That way in the PL era - heck even Blackburn bought a league title. Since then more clubs have come in with the readies to compete and build the infrastructure to take the club to the next level, set up sustainable infrastructure for the future, sustain higher revenue channel opportunities and so on.

Chelsea spent dirty Russian money on building that club. Money with blood on it.

And as for the Dippers being up in arms - let's just reflect on the fact that their club is responsible for the murder of 39 Juventus fans, responsible for English teams being banned from Europe, responsible for attacks on opponents team coaches. If there ever was any justice then that club would be permanently banned from Europe and would have been relegated by the FA for giving English football a bad name in the 80s. So I'd advise them to shut the fuck up.

I know you were trying to be balanced and it's appreciated, but a few things:

City weren't cleared by UEFA, City were cleared by CAS. The time limitation wasn't a CAS rule, it was in UEFA's own rules. You also seem to have bought the idea that there is no limitation in the PL case. There is. So don't be surprised to see some time limitation in the panel's verdict. And, limitation means that the allegations can't be proven, it means being cleared. It's not a technicality, it's a fundamental aspect of law.

If there is a settlement, it could equally be that it is being driven by the PL because of the weakness of their case. It is equally possible the PL's legal team are recommending a settlement. And if the club do settle, I doubt it would involve a points deduction as that would imply some guilt. Maybe a suspended points deductions, but even that implies guilt and I am pretty sure the club, this time, wants to avoid the endless discussions around guilt or innocence.

 

[salfordbluetrue]

I watched AFTV this evening to catch up on the transfer rumours and I was disappointed to see AFTV banging on about the charges as that hasn't been part of the agenda of AFTV all season. That being said there were City fans on here having a dig at the Thomas Partey accusations and in both cases it's innocent until proven guilty. You can't give it out to him and then complain that other fans give it to City. Not until the proper legal process has been allowed to take course.

Re the City charges, 115 is misleading as the reality is it will boil down to a few more serious charges and a bunch of other much more trivial misdemeanours. Bear in mind the traditional top 4 sides had decades to get their shit together and spend a fortune on building their clubs so if, big IF, City are guilty, it will be of doing something to develop the club in a way that the other big sides have historically been allowed to do but now times have changed and newly-monied clubs are unable to, and City bending the rules and concealing the true nature of events leading up to City being able to invest in the club.

From what I'm reading and hearing it is likely some sort of deal gets done in the background, City get a 20 point deduction and a big fine - will mean they won't win the league that season but still qualify for CL. The hysteria that City get relegated to the National League or whatever is overkill - not in a million years will that happen and it's in the club's interests to wrap things up quickly and I'm sure the lawyers will be advising them that as for sure with 115 charges to go through some of them will stick, even though there's an element of subjectivity to them all.

Note also, contrary to some of the posts in this thread, City were NOT cleared by UEFA. They were found guilty however there is a statute of limitations that applies when going to the European CAS meaning evidence older than a specified period of time cannot be used and therefore the charges were not allowed to stick. PL rules are different and evidence can be used from any period of time which is why I think the PL will get some of them to stick. But none of the charges are as serious as the ones Juventus faced for basically match-fixing and their penalty was relegation to the next division down. So there's nothing in my mind that makes me think City won't be able to do a deal behind the scenes with a one-off points deduction and a fine.

As a Gooner I'm genuinely not bitter at all - we've historically had the opportunity to spend whatever we wanted - we chose not to (despite at the time having a corrupt Putin stooge in the form of Alisher Usmanov as a major shareholder who wanted to splash his blood money around). Other clubs like Chelsea and the Rags did get their wallets out though and now they don't like it when someone else wants to spend their money on their club. Football has always been. That way in the PL era - heck even Blackburn bought a league title. Since then more clubs have come in with the readies to compete and build the infrastructure to take the club to the next level, set up sustainable infrastructure for the future, sustain higher revenue channel opportunities and so on.

Chelsea spent dirty Russian money on building that club. Money with blood on it.

And as for the Dippers being up in arms - let's just reflect on the fact that their club is responsible for the murder of 39 Juventus fans, responsible for English teams being banned from Europe, responsible for attacks on opponents team coaches. If there ever was any justice then that club would be permanently banned from Europe and would have been relegated by the FA for giving English football a bad name in the 80s. So I'd advise them to shut the fuck up.

A nice post, so i will give you my view, we do not know what evidence the second investigators found, but we do know City are up for the fight, we do know that City have been charged on every charge before, we do know that the PL investigated the charges at the time and found nothing. In short it does not matter what the PL do, City have clear and repetitive evidence of victimization to put it politely,. it is going to court where the PL will need to prove their evidence is strong enough to keep opening up old cases.
It is not whet punishment we will get, it is what punishment the PL will get, and who pays for it.

 

[domalino]

even if Klopp thinks that City cheated saying that is something else.

Doesnt surprice me after the "this is bad day for football ".

The managers, pundits and players are just fans at the end of the day - they’re reading the twitter threads and listening to the podcasts and reading the papers too.

 

[citymad]

...because our media department (in terms of fighting back and setting the agenda) isn't fit for purpose.

It's been said on here before that some in the media department are fine with what the fanzines writers come out with.

I know through someone who used to work at the legal department that our media team are quite chummy with the journalists that write shit about us.

After the CAS verdict the club should have taken a hardline with anyone casting doubt on it.

The cheats and sportswashing jibes have stuck because our media department is nowhere to be seen.

I often think the lack of fight from our press media means they know the club is in alot of trouble.

 

[bumbleblue]

I often think the lack of fight from our press media means they know the club is in alot of trouble.

Seriously do you get that vibe from Khaldoon ??