PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[Manchester1894]

Maybe it's best not to release it in the biggest booze fueled month. Can imagine when this releases it'll be carnage on a night out whichever way the result goes! Even if in our favour no red we know will accept it.

 

[wolviedinho]

The upside to all this is the unraveling of rival fans like Carragher, trying to get into Dortmund and now the dips are back to crisis mode(thx mo).

I want more and more rants. Come on city don’t let me down.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

For what it's worth, I think we can now assume the time it's taking is due to something going on that we don't know about. I think we have crossed the point from "it's a lot of words" to "wtf is going on?". I get that such timing isn't unusual in the legal world, but this isn't the High Court, it's not even an arbitration under the Arbitration Act. It's just a disciplinary process between a self-appointed regulator and a "regulatee" :).

I find it difficult to accept that the panel may take into account sporting considerations in the timing of their award, but wouldn't take into account the damage to the sport of taking too long. Just too inconsistent.

I also find it difficult to accept that, if something is going on, the two parties don't know about it. If it is significant enough to warrant months of extra consideration, it most likely required extra clarification from the panel. So these stories about the parties sitting patiently waiting for something they have no clue about doesn't sit well with me. I am not questioning what people have been told, I am questioning their interpretation of it. I can do that because I don't give a fuck.

It's possible but highly unlikely that they're still trying to get their heads round the evidence and decide on the outcome. So it's a fair assumption that there's something going on.

As has been said, there is no requirement under the rules to release the outcome at all unless the parties agree, or it's deemed to be in the public interest. I'd say the latter applies in this case so the supposition has to be that the parties don't know the outcome yet or do know it, even if informally, but haven't agreed to release it as yet.

 

[red 2 hats]

One way or the other i just want an end to it.

I haven't got a clue about arbitration or law, just what I read on here, but I'm now at the stage where I just want closure.

For it to drag on this long without a known verdict just makes me think it wasn't an easy win for either side, either put us out of our misery or let us crack open the champagne.

 

[crystal_mais]

If the Premier League were so convinced it was a slam dunk case, I'd argue the longer it has gone on, the better.

Certainly a slam dunk doesn't take a year to conclude.

As recently evidenced by the coach and horses City ran through these idiots over sponsorships, we are not dealing with geniuses.

I'm not sure its slam dunk either way. We say we had irrefutable evidence and they said it was a slam dunk.

Think a year has gone by now and nothing. I keep thinking if Politics has got in the way.

 

[Lord Blue]

With you on that. I would only be pissed that it was done in a way that proof could be so easily found by some Portuguese **** and a German newspaper, especially as there were so many ways around the rules "legally".

Just to reiterate, though: I don't think the club fraudulently inflated sponsorship in the way we are assuming the PL suggests (for a host of reasons) and, even if the club did, I don't think the PL would be able to prove it to the standard required.

The rest of the assumed allegations I don't care about much, to be honest.

So, as you were.

For what it's worth, I think we can now assume the time it's taking is due to something going on that we don't know about. I think we have crossed the point from "it's a lot of words" to "wtf is going on?". I get that such timing isn't unusual in the legal world, but this isn't the High Court, it's not even an arbitration under the Arbitration Act. It's just a disciplinary process between a self-appointed regulator and a "regulatee" :).

I find it difficult to accept that the panel may take into account sporting considerations in the timing of their award, but wouldn't take into account the damage to the sport of taking too long. Just too inconsistent.

I also find it difficult to accept that, if something is going on, the two parties don't know about it. If it is significant enough to warrant months of extra consideration, it most likely required extra clarification from the panel. So these stories about the parties sitting patiently waiting for something they have no clue about doesn't sit well with me. I am not questioning what people have been told, I am questioning their interpretation of it. I can do that because I don't give a fuck.

your remark on potentially seeking extra clarification on various points does sound like it could gobble up chunks of time quite easily. imagine asking a blocking question and having to wait a fortnight for an answer. imagine that leading to another question, etc.

 

[crystal_mais]

your remark on potentially seeking extra clarification on various points does sound like it could gobble up chunks of time quite easily. imagine asking a blocking question and having to wait a fortnight for an answer. imagine that leading to another question, etc.

They'd speed the process up if they charged for hours waiting for a response

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

How much has it cost our rivals in legal fees and can we have a ticker at the bottom of the forum showing the costs as they rise. Please?

 

[Norbert D]

your remark on potentially seeking extra clarification on various points does sound like it could gobble up chunks of time quite easily. imagine asking a blocking question and having to wait a fortnight for an answer. imagine that leading to another question, etc.

I wonder if you have hit the nail on the proverbial head. The Premier League have already been found to have acted in bad faith when dealing with City’s potential sponsorship deals, being found amongst other things to have built in unnecessary delays when responding to the club. It doesn’t take much of a stretch of our collective imagination to presume they are now deliberately delaying the progress of the case under the guise of seeking clarification to requests for clarification, answering questions with questions etc.

Whereas City and us want a resolution ASAP, the Premier League only want a resolution if it finds in their favour. Hence if there is any chance they are going to taste defeat again, any delay keeps us under suspicion and impacts our wider business. This in effect is the punishment for challenging the cartel, forever having to defend ourselves from vindictive smears.

 

[Norbert D]

How much has it cost our rivals in legal fees and can we have a ticker at the bottom of the forum showing the costs as they rise. Please?

One nineteenth of what it’s costing us.

 

[Eccles Blue]

It depends I suppose on who decides whether it is in the public interest or not. :-)

 

[blueste41]

I wonder if you have hit the nail on the proverbial head. The Premier League have already been found to have acted in bad faith when dealing with City’s potential sponsorship deals, being found amongst other things to have built in unnecessary delays when responding to the club. It doesn’t take much of a stretch of our collective imagination to presume they are now deliberately delaying the progress of the case under the guise of seeking clarification to requests for clarification, answering questions with questions etc.

Whereas City and us want a resolution ASAP, the Premier League only want a resolution if it finds in their favour. Hence if there is any chance they are going to taste defeat again, any delay keeps us under suspicion and impacts our wider business. This in effect is the punishment for challenging the cartel, forever having to defend ourselves from vindictive smears.

Why would the club want a resolution ASAP if it wasn't in their favour?

 

[blueste41]

your remark on potentially seeking extra clarification on various points does sound like it could gobble up chunks of time quite easily. imagine asking a blocking question and having to wait a fortnight for an answer. imagine that leading to another question, etc.

But surely that is what the hearing was for and once concluded the panel decide the outcome based on the evidence provided? In civil court the judge doesn't continually call back witnesses once the case has concluded.

 

[Milesvk]

It's possible but highly unlikely that they're still trying to get their heads round the evidence and decide on the outcome. So it's a fair assumption that there's something going on.

As has been said, there is no requirement under the rules to release the outcome at all unless the parties agree, or it's deemed to be in the public interest. I'd say the latter applies in this case so the supposition has to be that the parties don't know the outcome yet or do know it, even if informally, but haven't agreed to release it as yet.

I personally think its just all down to the number of charges.
Yes they can be rolled up into 5-6 charges over multiple years. But each charge which ever year will still be defended with dozens or hundreds of documents and also dozens or hundreds of documents for prosecution.
There would of been some very clever defence and also very clever prosecution (despite the media suggesting Premier League lawyers have been pulled from pub in moston on £15 and hour). To write up against each charge with all the clever arguments tactics and to ensure there is no grounds for appeal will be very time consuming. I would imagine all 3 panel members have other duties including sick, holidays etc and probably not all writing at the same time and work independently, I would assume they would have to proof read each others work so the final report flows. Could you imagine the size of your report if you got given the task of conducting an accounting investigation on 1 charge for 1 year and making sure there are no comebacks from your report.
I think we would be all better off not thinking about time lines because like me it will send people nuts trying to second guess. I think stefan has previously stated if this was in the high court then it would be a year minimum for a verdict.
I genuinely believe you have spoken to people at City who are very confident based on their expert opinion and I also believe stefan when he says that nobody knows.
Anyway, come on city, and fuck the red cartel, viva la resistance.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

I personally think its just all down to the number of charges.
Yes they can be rolled up into 5-6 charges over multiple years. But each charge which ever year will still be defended with dozens or hundreds of documents and also dozens or hundreds of documents for prosecution.
There would of been some very clever defence and also very clever prosecution (despite the media suggesting Premier League lawyers have been pulled from pub in moston on £15 and hour). To write up against each charge with all the clever arguments tactics and to ensure there is no grounds for appeal will be very time consuming. I would imagine all 3 panel members have other duties including sick, holidays etc and probably not all writing at the same time and work independently, I would assume they would have to proof read each others work so the final report flows. Could you imagine the size of your report if you got given the task of conducting an accounting investigation on 1 charge for 1 year and making sure there are no comebacks from your report.
I think we would be all better off not thinking about time lines because like me it will send people nuts trying to second guess. I think stefan has previously stated if this was in the high court then it would be a year minimum for a verdict.
I genuinely believe you have spoken to people at City who are very confident based on their expert opinion and I also believe stefan when he says that nobody knows.
Anyway, come on city, and fuck the red cartel, viva la resistance.

Re the bolded bit, there was that mini "leak" a few months back with Premier League execs saying they were surprised at our approach, questioning everything (I'm paraphrasing). On that basis, you are probably right. Anyway, lets hope it's all over soon but this might conceivably drag on for a good while yet

 

[silva_is_gold]

I've found the original charge sheets


View attachment 176353

This is the original a think lol

 

[Ghostofmerlin]

It would be a rather epic troll if they just never released anything and nothing happened. I would find that hilarious.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

It depends I suppose on who decides whether it is in the public interest or not. :-)

Depends on whether we're found guilty of anything, in which case it will be.

But if the PL come out of it badly, then it won't be.

 

[foggy1974]

Agree, we’ll all be heading for the Cemetery Gates by time this comes out, so why Panic

Are Pantera playing at the Coop live

 

[cleavers]

Agree, we’ll all be heading for the Cemetery Gates by time this comes out, so why Panic

We're all getting a day closer every day, and we've already lost a lot who will never find out (or they already know being beyond the grave).

I never really give it a second thought unless this thread pops back to the top, and more often than not, it's just a pun fest bringing it up again, so about once a fortnight I open the thread, only to find nothing new.