PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[WRicko]

There are two separate issues with Chelsea. One they reported, and a later bank leak of Roman's secret accounts, which they may have had no idea about, so couldn't have reported.

But both should warrant relegation or something like that if as serious as we think based on what’s been leveled suggested for us or Everton etc

 

[eastmanc]

I don't think so - it's just a coincidence that it came out shortly after.

From what I remember, it came out of a huge leak from the Cypriot banking system. The main story was about Russian oligarchs using their secretive accounts to avoid sanctions after the invasion of Ukraine, Abramovitch being one of them. It was only a small part of the story that his accounts showed tens of millions in payments, going back throughout the FFP/PSR era, that were linked with Chelsea, but weren't in their accounts.

I bow to your superior knowledge.

 

[bluenova]

But both should warrant relegation or something like that if as serious as we think based on what’s been leveled suggested for us or Everton etc

I don't know the full details, but I don't think the self-reported issues were particularly serious, but the second issues, that came from the bank leak are very similar to some of our charges, and hugely serious.

However, the new owners can (probably) legitimately say they knew nothing about Roman's secret bank accounts, and it's not like he's going to come forward and attend a hearing.

 

[bluenova]

As I say they have reported matters but we don’t know what has been submitted. It wasn’t so much a bank discovered off the book payments there was a data leak.

I pointed out on the face of it we can all make a judgement as to the reason and or justification of these payments but as you say RA no doubt has been very very difficult if not impossible to deal with and that is why the PL will be trading very carefully simply because they can’t make assumptions they have to rely on evidence and not just an email but they , the PL, will need to be sure that say a payment to an individual was in respect of a specific transaction.

I do wonder if the Abramovich issue could possibly help City.

A large part of the problem for the PL is proving anything City did actually broke the rules, without full access to accounts of everyone involved. If they already have an idea that the Chelsea issues will be impossible to prove, then then it might raise the bar on what level of evidence they need to find City guilty.

 

[Xhavenjoe]

twin brother ?
alter ego maybe ?

Jedward?

 

[WRicko]

I don't know the full details, but I don't think the self-reported issues were particularly serious, but the second issues, that came from the bank leak are very similar to some of our charges, and hugely serious.

However, the new owners can (probably) legitimately say they knew nothing about Roman's secret bank accounts, and it's not like he's going to come forward and attend a hearing.

I don’t know about the bank leak and I don’t really know about the self reported stuff but the way it was reported was off the books payments to players and agents over the whole or large part of Roman era to very large extent. This could have for example lead to signing Hazard etc who was then sold for how much. These are far bigger issues / amounts than Mancini payments or image rights all could have had a material change of the books / fraud like we are accused. That being said the press don’t mention it like us so maybe it’s all nothing or maybe it’s just bias

 

[Newman Noggs]

The PSR charges for all intents and purposes are straight forward in that the numbers in the accounts and the numbers in clubs submissions will tell the tale.
As you say and the point is those payments are“ potentially “ off the books. I am not for one we denying that that there is every possibility that the PL can prove that these payments were made but the question remains without access to RAs records, accounts etc can the PL prove even to a beyond reasonable doubt.
The PL can try as much as they like to get someone outside a clubs responsibility to make a statement, release emails, texts etc but if that individual isn’t under the control of a club, not involved in football then what conclusion will any investigator be able to reach?
The PL and indeed Chelsea will want to draw a line under RAs tenure , the new owners of Chelsea will want to draw a line under the issue so I very much doubt any major challenges will be encountered.
As I say I may be miss reading completely but I just sense the discussions now revolve around a “ comprise settlement “. If that’s right I suspect it will be a combination of 3 sanctions 1) a fine, 2, a Transfer Ban and 3) a points deduction the latter I would not be at all suppressed to be suspended

Firstly, from a personal point of view, I don't think any club should be punished for any breach of FFP/PSR because I don"t recognise them as legitimate. I believe they are the biggest fraud ever perpetrated on football.

However, given that we do have them, it is the actions of the club at any given time that are under scrutiny. It is a separate legal entity in it's own right. The fact that the current directors were not the individuals responsible for the club's past misconduct is not, in my view, relevant. It is simply mitigation concerning their personal roles. The club still gained a historic advantage, if that is the argument, and should be punished accordingly. Stupid, but that is where we are I'm afraid.

 

[terraloon]

I do wonder if the Abramovich issue could possibly help City.

A large part of the problem for the PL is proving anything City did actually broke the rules, without full access to accounts of everyone involved. If they already have an idea that the Chelsea issues will be impossible to prove, then then it might raise the bar on what level of evidence they need to find City guilty.

To a degree I think the matters are similar

The PL simply can’t rely on data leaks alone without information contained in those leaks being backed up by further evidence, witness statements accounting records etc

I genuinely believe the PL are now between a rock and a hard place in the sense that our issues have complicated the landscape re City added to the fact that it was the disclosures that kicked off the investigation and they the PL have to rely , no encourage, self disclosure when matters are “ uncovered”and should draconian punishments be handed out then clubs simply will keep quiet

 

[terraloon]

Firstly, from a personal point of view, I don't think any club should be punished for any breach of FFP/PSR because I don"t recognise them as legitimate. I believe they are the biggest fraud ever perpetrated on football.

However, given that we do have them, it is the actions of the club at any given time that are under scrutiny. It is a separate legal entity in it's own right. The fact that the current directors were not the individuals responsible for the club's past misconduct is not, in my view, relevant. It is simply mitigation concerning their personal roles. The club still gained a historic advantage, if that is the argument, and should be punished accordingly. Stupid, but that is where we are I'm afraid.

Hey I agree with the concept of PSR/FFP is flawed but as you say we have them.

Interestingly RA was never a director of CFC or its holding company and actually BlueCo didn’t buy the shares of Fordstam which was in effect the ultimate holding company they simply bought the subsidiary namely CFC Ltd.

Having said all that of course it would be churlish to argue that for all intents the club then and now separate entities.

I am not even arguing that if the allegations or assumptions are indeed fact then punishment shouldn’t follow my point is those allegations and assumptions have to be proved to a standard and the fact that RA is no longer around ‘certainly complicates matters potentially to the point where both sides as it were will be looking for a way to bring matters to a conclusion be it by way of no further action ( doubtful) or a compromise agreement where both sides can argue justice has been seen to be done.

 

[dadnlad]

Hey I agree with the concept of PSR/FFP is flawed but as you say we have them.

Interestingly RA was never a director of CFC or its holding company and actually BlueCo didn’t buy the shares of Fordstam which was in effect the ultimate holding company they simply bought the subsidiary namely CFC Ltd.

Having said all that of course it would be churlish to argue that for all intents the club then and now separate entities.

I am not even arguing that if the allegations or assumptions are indeed fact then punishment shouldn’t follow my point is those allegations and assumptions have to be proved to a standard and the fact that RA is no longer around ‘certainly complicates matters potentially to the point where both sides as it were will be looking for a way to bring matters to a conclusion be it by way of no further action ( doubtful) or a compromise agreement where both sides can argue justice has been seen to be done.

whats opinion on chelsea forms or just a witch hunt and city done worse ?