PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[dadnlad]

Hey I agree with the concept of PSR/FFP is flawed but as you say we have them.

Interestingly RA was never a director of CFC or its holding company and actually BlueCo didn’t buy the shares of Fordstam which was in effect the ultimate holding company they simply bought the subsidiary namely CFC Ltd.

Having said all that of course it would be churlish to argue that for all intents the club then and now separate entities.

I am not even arguing that if the allegations or assumptions are indeed fact then punishment shouldn’t follow my point is those allegations and assumptions have to be proved to a standard and the fact that RA is no longer around ‘certainly complicates matters potentially to the point where both sides as it were will be looking for a way to bring matters to a conclusion be it by way of no further action ( doubtful) or a compromise agreement where both sides can argue justice has been seen to be done.

whats opinion on chelsea forms or just a witch hunt and city done worse ?

 

[Paladin]

This is just a smear on City. As others have said, the journalist seems to have been asked to pen an article on the eve of the new season, and what better way to generate clicks than slagging off City.

Manchester City, the Premier League and the season everything might change

This summer, during numerous conversations with owners and executives who work or have worked within the Premier League, many speaking anonymously to protect relationships, the divergence of opinions and expectations has been revealing. The matter has been discussed informally between ownership groups within the Premier League and it is the subject of gossip in matchday boardrooms. Naturally, they speculate.

Many speaking anonymously? Great. Who were the ones that were willing to be quoted? Let's see their names if they didn't ask for anonymity. Or is this all just a little bit made up?

There are some executives who are so worn down by the decade-long pursuit of City that they fear Manchester City’s case may result in a financial settlement rather than a sporting penalty. Then there are rival executives who consider this outcome to be impossible, utterly outrageous, and say it would cast the death knell for financial sustainability not only within the English game but across European football.

So Crafton has talked to a number of PL executives and gained a number of different perspectives on the case. They are worn down by the whole process? My heart bleeds for them. Spare a thought for the Manchester City executives, who have been fighting for justice for ten years.

As one Premier League club executive says: “The collective view I’ve heard is that an appropriate sanction would have to be a points deduction so substantial — we are talking here between 70 and 80 points — that it guarantees City a season in the Championship.”

The collective view he has heard? What does that mean? That he has talked to many PL executives and there is a majority view, or someone has summarised to him what all the other PL executives are thinking.

Another of the sport’s leading figures suggests the punishment ought to be more creative, that a number of points could be deducted from City in each of the next three seasons, meaning the club’s chance of Champions League qualification would be severely restricted. Another compares the City case to that of the English rugby union side Saracens who, when Premiership champions in 2019, were deducted 35 points, hit with a £5.36million ($6.9m at current rates) fine and relegated to the second division owing to non-compliance with the league’s salary-cap rules.

Really? You have spoken to two of football's leading figures, and one of them remembered what happened to Saracens, five years ago?

A coach who came up against City has simply made his mind up about their guilt and argues they have not achieved their success with the same level of discipline as their rivals, but suspects it is too late now to truly remedy the matter.

Didn't you think to mention to the coach that there is a basic tenet in English law, that someone is innocent until proved guilty?

At the same time, there are fears that a failure to convict and punish City poses major questions about the Premier League’s ability to run itself, particularly with the prospect of an independent regulator still looming next year. Numerous club executives say their incentives to follow the rules would be greatly diminished if the Premier League proves toothless on City.

Oh, so a number of PL executives have told you in confidence that if City are shown to be innocent of cheating, they themselves will consider starting to cheat? How does not cheating become an incentive to cheat? I hope you have reported them to Mr Masters. Pass this information to Nick Harris. He's big on cheating.

In English football, nobody is prepared to put their name to quotes about the City case.

That's not what you said earlier. You inferred that some PL executives didn't request anonymity. Come on Adam. You're a journalist. Accuracy is important in your profession.

That is not the same for La Liga president Javier Tebas, who has been a longstanding critic of the impact of clubs linked to nation-states. City always insist they are not owned by the state of the United Arab Emirates (UAE), but Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed Al Nahyan is the deputy prime minister of the UAE and the minister of presidential affairs. He is the majority shareholder in City via Newton Investment and Development, a company he wholly owns and which is registered in Abu Dhabi.

Tebas tells The Athletic: “It is difficult for me to say what is proportionate in England because I don’t know so well the English rules and law. But I can refer to what happened at UEFA… then what happened at CAS — in a resolution I would describe as a joke — is they took the sanction away. It was a very controversial decision to take away that sanction. Now, let’s see, I won’t dare to predict, but I am aware that there is a lot of concern among many clubs in the Premier League about what happens with City. What happens with Man City is a before and after moment for the Premier League itself.”

Good move Adam. The only person you have attributed to an actual quote for your article is someone who admits he doesn't know the rules and laws of English football. You appear to have spoken to many PL executives. Couldn't you have found just one expert on English football? It would have given your piece so much more credibility. Have a word with Talksport. They know one.

 

[Cobwebcat]

You know I’m surprised about something in all this.

With all the talk of 80 point deductions vs irrefutable evidence and lawyer’s guesses, it is rare for anyone to point out that, if we are guessing, the best guess must surely be based on the fact that a very similar case was run not so long ago at CAS and featured City. The reasons behind the decisions are in black and white.

If the PL panel are not aware of the above, given that they are to preside over a very similar case, I would be astonished.

All these journalists have their own agenda but, if put on the spot with their life depending on being correct, I would suggest that they should have a read of the CAS verdict before deciding to leap off a cliff.

Bias aside, what would you do? It would logically be my first port of call.

 

[Paladin]

Hey I agree with the concept of PSR/FFP is flawed but as you say we have them.

Interestingly RA was never a director of CFC or its holding company and actually BlueCo didn’t buy the shares of Fordstam which was in effect the ultimate holding company they simply bought the subsidiary namely CFC Ltd.

Having said all that of course it would be churlish to argue that for all intents the club then and now separate entities.

I am not even arguing that if the allegations or assumptions are indeed fact then punishment shouldn’t follow my point is those allegations and assumptions have to be proved to a standard and the fact that RA is no longer around ‘certainly complicates matters potentially to the point where both sides as it were will be looking for a way to bring matters to a conclusion be it by way of no further action ( doubtful) or a compromise agreement where both sides can argue justice has been seen to be done.

These behind closed doors discussions that are going on. Do you think we will ever get to hear how many breaches Chelsea are being accused of? Their equivalent of 115? The PL had no hesitation in publishing the severity of our alleged misdemeanours. It's strange that they don't adopt this same approach for other clubs being investigated.

 

[terraloon]

whats opinion on chelsea forms or just a witch hunt and city done worse ?

Probably comes as no surprise to you the majority have you banged to rights simply because , well, you are city and I suspect you must realise that almost certainly most other clubs supporters feel the same.I put it down to jealousy and just like or alleged indiscretion's I am far from sure that the evidence will be strong enough for the IC to find against you.

That is for for a significant % of matters the two that will be interesting will be the allegations around Mancini and image rights but I am making those comments purely on what is in the press and that to be fair is a massive no no but nonetheless it’s all I have to form a view.

Of course most fellow supporters of Chelsea think your case is far worse they just as I pointed out in an earlier post have blinkers when it comes to how their club operate and thirst on press negativity concerning a n other as it makes them feel others are worse

For me the worse are Arsenal supporters they are a total bunch of hypocrites the vast majority have not a clue about their history such as the court disclosures at Ray Parlours divorce around disclosures concerning off shore player payments, or money injected by Granada Media.Their arrogance and holier than thou attitude as MC18 will attest is beyond belief one individual a chap who writes on Untold Arsenal is a cheerleader and his disciples never listen to any other viewpoint

 

[terraloon]

These behind closed doors discussions that are going on. Do you think we will ever get to hear how many breaches Chelsea are being accused of? Their equivalent of 115? The PL had no hesitation in publishing the severity of our alleged misdemeanours. It's strange that they don't adopt this same approach for other clubs being investigated.

They will if charges are issued they will have to be published but we aren’t at that point bear in mind it was only at the point of charge did we learn what their investigation into matters City were looking at although the UEFA case had been a pretty good indicator where it was going

 

[Paladin]

Probably comes as no surprise to you the majority have you banged to rights simply because , well, you are city and I suspect you must realise that almost certainly most other clubs supporters feel the same.I put it down to jealousy and just like or alleged indiscretion's I am far from sure that the evidence will be strong enough for the IC to find against you.

That is for for a significant % of matters the two that will be interesting will be the allegations around Mancini and image rights but I am making those comments purely on what is in the press and that to be fair is a massive no no but nonetheless it’s all I have to form a view.

Of course most fellow supporters of Chelsea think your case is far worse they just as I pointed out in an earlier post have blinkers when it comes to how their club operate and thirst on press negativity concerning a n other as it makes them feel others are worse

For me the worse are Arsenal supporters they are a total bunch of hypocrites the vast majority have not a clue about their history such as the court disclosures at Ray Parlours divorce around disclosures concerning off shore player payments, or money injected by Granada Media.Their arrogance and holier than thou attitude as MC18 will attest is beyond belief one individual a chap who writes on Untold Arsenal is a cheerleader and his disciples never listen to any other viewpoint

It's nothing to do with jealousy. It has everything to do with biased reporting. Look at the article today from The Athletic. Where is the balance? Show me one article that looks at both sides of the story, or that considers the possibility of City's innocence.

 

[burning blue soul]

Yeah something like that. Didn't bringing up the less serious issue lead to them finding theo really serious issue.?

Chelsea new owners will have known all about these 'infractions'
They are just working their way out of things as best they can.

 

[terraloon]

It's nothing to do with jealousy. It has everything to do with biased reporting. Look at the article today from The Athletic. Where is the balance? Show me one article that looks at both sides of the story, or that considers the possibility of City's innocence.

Of course the reporting is biased the journalists and pundits want to stir things up it creates more sale or more clicks but I stand by my point that most supporters are jealous of Cities achievements so they desperately want to hear negativity when it concerns city .

 

[Cobwebcat]

Probably comes as no surprise to you the majority have you banged to rights simply because , well, you are city and I suspect you must realise that almost certainly most other clubs supporters feel the same.I put it down to jealousy and just like or alleged indiscretion's I am far from sure that the evidence will be strong enough for the IC to find against you.

That is for for a significant % of matters the two that will be interesting will be the allegations around Mancini and image rights but I am making those comments purely on what is in the press and that to be fair is a massive no no but nonetheless it’s all I have to form a view.

Of course most fellow supporters of Chelsea think your case is far worse they just as I pointed out in an earlier post have blinkers when it comes to how their club operate and thirst on press negativity concerning a n other as it makes them feel others are worse

For me the worse are Arsenal supporters they are a total bunch of hypocrites the vast majority have not a clue about their history such as the court disclosures at Ray Parlours divorce around disclosures concerning off shore player payments, or money injected by Granada Media.Their arrogance and holier than thou attitude as MC18 will attest is beyond belief one individual a chap who writes on Untold Arsenal is a cheerleader and his disciples never listen to any other viewpoint

Lee Gunner is excellent.