PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[I'm no cynic but...]

I am not a lawyer, but if we face a kangaroo court hell bent on our destruction, irrespective of the evidence we present, surely the KCs responsible could be reported to the ombudsman for malpractice? Surely that's enough of a reason for them to behave themselves rather than cave in to the demands of the PL. Just a thought.

The KC would be expected to stick to the evidence and to seek the truth at all times, but never forget there is a prosecution and a defence and their questioning is aimed at winning a case for those who are paying them. Therefore they will try to lead the proceedings to the kind of questioning that will attain the required results for their clients. And the better ones are often so good at it that an easier lifestyle beckons in the Commons which is full of them.

 

[waspish]

It's going to be a long wait to find out. I am hoping the tribunal once it actually starts realise very quickly that these charges are a load of bollocks. Let's hope we have our house in order.

Always thought it would take years because they have to go through the million of documents because they getting paid to find something wrong!

 

[Iassel]

I am not a lawyer, but if we face a kangaroo court hell bent on our destruction, irrespective of the evidence we present, surely the KCs responsible could be reported to the ombudsman for malpractice?

No, they can’t. But I wouldn’t worry, Adam Lewis representing the PL is one of the worlds most respected lawyers in sports law. He’s not risking his reputation on a kangaroo court.

The only question for them is, did the people high in these companies lie under oath? They could easily say yes in there eyes after all narrative over the last 10+ years

Assuming senior people at Etihad/Etisalat testify, the tribunal isn’t going to go to the lengths of finding them uncredible without some irrefutable proof that contradicts them.

Always thought it would take years because they have to go through the million of documents because they getting paid to find something wrong!

Respectfully, absolute bollocks. As above, Adam Lewis and Blackstone Chambers are extremely respected. Lewis has been doing this for 15 years now and literally writes the textbook on sports law.

He’s not taken the case for money, he already earns multi millions every year. He’s taken the case as he’s seen the evidence the PL believe they have and is confident he can land the case.

I could buy into the idea that it’s just a stitch up retrial of the UEFA case if Tom and Shaz just admitted to the bar were representing the PL, but the fact that the industry leader thinks there is enough there to land the case would signal strongly against that as I simply refuse to believe he would throw his hard earned reputation away that wilfully.

As said before though, if in 18 months time the ruling comes out and it has only ever been a rehash it will be absolutely fucking hilarious and the clubs executives will be puffing on Cuba’s fattest cigars as the PL implodes.

Important to point out too that Lewis has already represented the PL in 2x arbitration hearings against City already on the investigation and won twice….

 

[johnnytapia]

We’re already tarnished. Mission accomplished

Give your fanny a wipe.

 

[hello]

I guess than that the pl released the charge sheet against the advice of their lawyers. Surely the lawyers would have gone through the charges and made sure it was all correct ?

Indeed any kc would have had a press release independently checked and verified by 2-3 solicitors as a minimum whilst charging the client their hourly rate. There s no way the press release in February was ok’ed by counsel.

 

[Rory Bluelow]

No, they can’t. But I wouldn’t worry, Adam Lewis representing the PL is one of the worlds most respected lawyers in sports law. He’s not risking his reputation on a kangaroo court.

Assuming senior people at Etihad/Etisalat testify, the tribunal isn’t going to go to the lengths of finding them uncredible without some irrefutable proof that contradicts them.

Respectfully, absolute bollocks. As above, Adam Lewis and Blackstone Chambers are extremely respected. Lewis has been doing this for 15 years now and literally writes the textbook on sports law.

He’s not taken the case for money, he already earns multi millions every year. He’s taken the case as he’s seen the evidence the PL believe they have and is confident he can land the case.

I could buy into the idea that it’s just a stitch up retrial of the UEFA case if Tom and Shaz just admitted to the bar were representing the PL, but the fact that the industry leader thinks there is enough there to land the case would signal strongly against that as I simply refuse to believe he would throw his hard earned reputation away that wilfully.

As said before though, if in 18 months time the ruling comes out and it has only ever been a rehash it will be absolutely fucking hilarious and the clubs executives will be puffing on Cuba’s fattest cigars as the PL implodes.

Important to point out too that Lewis has already represented the PL in 2x arbitration hearings against City already on the investigation and won twice….

I don't doubt for a moment that the PL legal team is highly capable. Lewis may well be the "industry" leader and "writes the textbook on Sports Law" but the most critical elements of the charges against City are not matters of Sports Law but relate to false accounting and deception. For all his undoubted specialist expertise he is up against Lord David Pannick - arguably the Country's leading "superstar" advocate. Regarding him choosing to take the case it seems likely that he is the EPL's go-to Counsel - and in any event would likely jump at the chance to go head-to-head with Lord Pannick...its how reputations are made and he's probably nothing to lose.
The two arbitrations you refer to were mere skirmishes, the big battle is yet to come.
You do seem pretty determined to talk up the odds against City - irrespective of logic.

 

[Iassel]

I guess than that the pl released the charge sheet against the advice of their lawyers. Surely the lawyers would have gone through the charges and made sure it was all correct ?

The day before the charges came out the details of the imminent government whitepaper were leaked that an independent regulator was going to be recommended.

The charge sheet referred to the old rule book that was updated for 22/23, so the charge sheet had been laying around for some time but clearly was thrown out in a panic without being proofread first. A pretty standard display of incompetence from the PL.

 

[jimmygrimblesboots]

Simon Jordan knows the square root of f*** all about our case , constantly goes on about how CAS initiated the time bar , when the time barring was always part of UEFA's own rules , and why does no one ever point out the hacker , Rui Pinto has recently been convicted of blackmail , fraud , embezzlement and counterfeiting , you'd think in fairness that might have a bearing on the case .. the case rests on evidence supposedly hacked by a convicted fraudster..

Rui also accused of attempting to blackmail clubs, maybe we didnt want to pay his price ?

 

[bluealf]

I don't doubt for a moment that the PL legal team is highly capable. Lewis may well be the "industry" leader and "writes the textbook on Sports Law" but the most critical elements of the charges against City are not matters of Sports Law but relate to false accounting and deception. For all his undoubted specialist expertise he is up against Lord David Pannick - arguably the Country's leading "superstar" advocate. Regarding him choosing to take the case it seems likely that he is the EPL's go-to Counsel - and in any event would likely jump at the chance to go head-to-head with Lord Pannick...its how reputations are made and he's probably nothing to lose.
The two arbitrations you refer to were mere skirmishes, the big battle is yet to come.
You do seem pretty determined to talk up the odds against City - irrespective of logic.

Red shirts are like that

 

[Iassel]

I don't doubt for a moment that the PL legal team is highly capable. Lewis may well be the "industry" leader and "writes the textbook on Sports Law" but the most critical elements of the charges against City are not matters of Sports Law but relate to false accounting and deception. For all his undoubted specialist expertise he is up against Lord David Pannick - arguably the Country's leading "superstar" advocate. Regarding him choosing to take the case it seems likely that he is the EPL's go-to Counsel - and in any event would likely jump at the chance to go head-to-head with Lord Pannick...its how reputations are made and he's probably nothing to lose.
The two arbitrations you refer to were mere skirmishes, the big battle is yet to come.
You do seem pretty determined to talk up the odds against City - irrespective of logic.

Lord Pannick is a fabulously competent KC and the club are undoubtedly in very good hands with him. With that said, I have no doubt that had Lewis not been the PLs long term man, the club would’ve loved to have him onboard for CAS and this case as his reputation proceeds him.

On him having nothing to lose, that is only applicable if the PL case is formulated around some new evidence, or perceived evidence. If it’s a straight rehash of the UEFA case it would be a Banksy-esque mark on his reputation.

On the topic of ‘talking up the odds against City’ I can assure you that’s not the case, my position is similar to Stefans - the PL on face value appear to have overcharged this to a crazy level and put themselves in the position by the very nature of the allegations that they need to deliver something way beyond ‘balance of probabilities’ to get the tribunal to find in their favour, especially as I’m sure the club will be having executives from Etihad, Etisalat, maybe even ADUG testifying. It feels like an unwinnable position for the PL team to likely have to convince the tribunal to find against their sworn testimonies, even before any further evidence that I’m sure the club intend to put on the table.

My point has only ever been that the tinfoil nature suggestions have never had any basis in reality, and there is no realistic prospect that Lewis and the PL moved on purely to appease red shirt clubs. They rushed out the charges in a misguided attempt to head off an independent regulator, but the charge sheet had clearly been laying around for some time as it referred to the pre-22 rules and they clearly think they have ‘something’, but whatever that may be, it would have to be earth shattering to land their case and that feels extremely unlikely for the reasons above.

 

[Silva61]

Simon Jordan knows the square root of f*** all about our case , constantly goes on about how CAS initiated the time bar , when the time barring was always part of UEFA's own rules , and why does no one ever point out the hacker , Rui Pinto has recently been convicted of blackmail , fraud , embezzlement and counterfeiting , you'd think in fairness that might have a bearing on the case .. the case rests on evidence supposedly hacked by a convicted fraudster..

That's not what his audience want to hear.

 

[cheekybids]

No, they can’t. But I wouldn’t worry, Adam Lewis representing the PL is one of the worlds most respected lawyers in sports law. He’s not risking his reputation on a kangaroo court.

Assuming senior people at Etihad/Etisalat testify, the tribunal isn’t going to go to the lengths of finding them uncredible without some irrefutable proof that contradicts them.

Respectfully, absolute bollocks. As above, Adam Lewis and Blackstone Chambers are extremely respected. Lewis has been doing this for 15 years now and literally writes the textbook on sports law.

He’s not taken the case for money, he already earns multi millions every year. He’s taken the case as he’s seen the evidence the PL believe they have and is confident he can land the case.

I could buy into the idea that it’s just a stitch up retrial of the UEFA case if Tom and Shaz just admitted to the bar were representing the PL, but the fact that the industry leader thinks there is enough there to land the case would signal strongly against that as I simply refuse to believe he would throw his hard earned reputation away that wilfully.

As said before though, if in 18 months time the ruling comes out and it has only ever been a rehash it will be absolutely fucking hilarious and the clubs executives will be puffing on Cuba’s fattest cigars as the PL implodes.

Important to point out too that Lewis has already represented the PL in 2x arbitration hearings against City already on the investigation and won twice….

You do realise that they take cases whereupon they know they have no chance of winning ……

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Simon Jordan knows the square root of f*** all.

You could've saved yourself some typing.

 

[LesBleuMiserable]

That's not what his audience want to hear.

Is there much of an audience?

I suspect he has one in the bedroom, not sure how she reacts to him though, if at all!

 

[Essex blue]

You do realise that they take cases whereupon they know they have no chance of winning ……

I guess the Fa don’t think they will the case on 115 points but will have some joy which may result in 30 odd charges sticking.

Bear in mind some of the charges we are guilty of is breaching uefa FFP which we accepted, paid the fine and reduced squad. Non compliance may well be another so it’s easy to see 30 odd charges sticking which proves we are guilty in the eyes of the red tops even tho it’s not the serious offences everyone thinks

 

[JewelZee]

Lord Pannick is a fabulously competent KC and the club are undoubtedly in very good hands with him. With that said, I have no doubt that had Lewis not been the PLs long term man, the club would’ve loved to have him onboard for CAS and this case as his reputation proceeds him.

On him having nothing to lose, that is only applicable if the PL case is formulated around some new evidence, or perceived evidence. If it’s a straight rehash of the UEFA case it would be a Banksy-esque mark on his reputation.

On the topic of ‘talking up the odds against City’ I can assure you that’s not the case, my position is similar to Stefans - the PL on face value appear to have overcharged this to a crazy level and put themselves in the position by the very nature of the allegations that they need to deliver something way beyond ‘balance of probabilities’ to get the tribunal to find in their favour, especially as I’m sure the club will be having executives from Etihad, Etisalat, maybe even ADUG testifying. It feels like an unwinnable position for the PL team to likely have to convince the tribunal to find against their sworn testimonies, even before any further evidence that I’m sure the club intend to put on the table.

My point has only ever been that the tinfoil nature suggestions have never had any basis in reality, and there is no realistic prospect that Lewis and the PL moved on purely to appease red shirt clubs. They rushed out the charges in a misguided attempt to head off an independent regulator, but the charge sheet had clearly been laying around for some time as it referred to the pre-22 rules and they clearly think they have ‘something’, but whatever that may be, it would have to be earth shattering to land their case and that feels extremely unlikely for the reasons above.

I understand what you are saying but that seems like an awfully long distance to travel in an attempt to head off what everyone knows is inevitable...the independent regulator is coming and the PL have taken on Goliath with not a sling shot but a pea shooter...If they've decided to go after City with charges of such magnitude using basically the same evidence everyone already knows it to be, then something simply doesn't compute...they have a 2 inch you know what in their hands whether one looks at it from the top, the bottom, or the side...just sayin...

 

[Jim Tolmie's Underpants]

Lord Pannick is a fabulously competent KC and the club are undoubtedly in very good hands with him.

 

[adelaideblue]

Lord Pannick is a fabulously competent KC and the club are undoubtedly in very good hands with him. With that said, I have no doubt that had Lewis not been the PLs long term man, the club would’ve loved to have him onboard for CAS and this case as his reputation proceeds him.

On him having nothing to lose, that is only applicable if the PL case is formulated around some new evidence, or perceived evidence. If it’s a straight rehash of the UEFA case it would be a Banksy-esque mark on his reputation.

On the topic of ‘talking up the odds against City’ I can assure you that’s not the case, my position is similar to Stefans - the PL on face value appear to have overcharged this to a crazy level and put themselves in the position by the very nature of the allegations that they need to deliver something way beyond ‘balance of probabilities’ to get the tribunal to find in their favour, especially as I’m sure the club will be having executives from Etihad, Etisalat, maybe even ADUG testifying. It feels like an unwinnable position for the PL team to likely have to convince the tribunal to find against their sworn testimonies, even before any further evidence that I’m sure the club intend to put on the table.

My point has only ever been that the tinfoil nature suggestions have never had any basis in reality, and there is no realistic prospect that Lewis and the PL moved on purely to appease red shirt clubs. They rushed out the charges in a misguided attempt to head off an independent regulator, but the charge sheet had clearly been laying around for some time as it referred to the pre-22 rules and they clearly think they have ‘something’, but whatever that may be, it would have to be earth shattering to land their case and that feels extremely unlikely for the reasons above.

i tend to be a bit pessimistic on it, surely if the the PL thought they had a weak case with no actual evidence then they would have pulled the pin, they know the resources of city and how uefa looked after CAS - it cant jsut be a made up case to appease the red shirt brigade - their legals would have weighed up the possibility of a conviction for whatever and decided they really have a strong case - hopefully not

 

[Cassandra]

The CAS decision was 2 to 1. The members of the CAS Panel were, presumably, of sufficiently high repute to be on the CAS register. So perhaps in choosing the panel the EPL are pinning their hopes on that, even with no new evidence, they can find a panel that will rule in their favour on at least some of the more substantive allegations

 

[JewelZee]

i tend to be a bit pessimistic on it, surely if the the PL thought they had a weak case with no actual evidence then they would have pulled the pin, they know the resources of city and how uefa looked after CAS - it cant jsut be a made up case to appease the red shirt brigade - their legals would have weighed up the possibility of a conviction for whatever and decided they really have a strong case - hopefully not

A strong case for the Prem would mean we knowingly committed fraud not once but year upon year and left a nice trail of cookie crumbs for the PL to follow. I have absolutely not one iota of doubt that the Prem knowingly and purposefully OVERCHARGED the shit out of us in the hopes of being able to make something stick. I'm supposed to believe City committed 115 chargeable offenses and left themselves wide open to being flagged on such. Like a bunch of rank amateurs. They may as well have charged us for being the biggest fucking idiots of all time. Sorry to all those wishful thinkers out there hoping for the worst for us but that's just not remotely realistic. In the neighborhood I grew up in years ago we'd have said "Get the fuck outta here with that bullshit"...