PL v CL

[SWP's back]

Re: Sv: PL v CL

Winning the league is a priority. Being dominant domestically over a number of years is the best prerequisite for success in the champions league.

Liverpool were hardly dominant domestically in the years leading up to their CL win in 2005.

Because it can be fluked a la Liverpool, Porto and Chelsea.

It's simply a sideshow. The league is the true test of a teams greatness.<br /><br />-- Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:14 pm --<br /><br />

Anyone thinking option E in the OP's list is the best option is a fool imho, why the f**k would we want to do that ? Unless money is the only driving force behind your support of City, in which case I don't understand you at all.

You think it's foolish to want to win the Champions League - the greatest trophy there is? The one that says you're the best team in a continent, not merely a country.

It no more says that than the FA Cup says you are the best team in England and Wales (unless you now think highly of Wigan).

The CL has been won by the best team in Europe perhaps 3 or 4 times out of the last 11 years.

 

[levets]

A without question....

 

[Skashion]

Anyone thinking option E in the OP's list is the best option is a fool imho, why the f**k would we want to do that ? Unless money is the only driving force behind your support of City, in which case I don't understand you at all.

You think it's foolish to want to win the Champions League - the greatest trophy there is? The one that says you're the best team in a continent, not merely a country.

Where did I say that ? I said anyone thinking E was a fool, I stick by that, no point finishing below 4th imho.

Option E was winning the Champions League, so ergo, anyone who would take a Champions League win over a title win is a fool.

 

[SWP's back]

Agreed.

 

[levets]

Anyone thinking option E in the OP's list is the best option is a fool imho, why the f**k would we want to do that ? Unless money is the only driving force behind your support of City, in which case I don't understand you at all.

You think it's foolish to want to win the Champions League - the greatest trophy there is? The one that says you're the best team in a continent, not merely a country.

so Chelsea were the best in the continent were they? Despite finishing 25? points behind City .. the best in England!

 

[Skashion]

Re: Sv: PL v CL

It no more says that than the FA Cup says you are the best team in England and Wales (unless you now think highly of Wigan).

The CL has been won by the best team in Europe perhaps 3 or 4 times out of the last 11 years.

I've already explained by position often enough by now but I simply don't buy comparing it to a domestic cup competition. If we'd been playing top-level opposition and we'd played liked we did against Leicester and Notts County in 2011, we'd have been out. A domestic cup competition pits you against lower league opposition regularly where your mistakes aren't punished. The Champions League does not allow that luxury.

In the years it was won, yes, but the teams who are consistently the best over a time period, are the ones who have won it no matter whether the were the best in that particular year or not. There's barely a team who's won it who I wouldn't consider to be an excellent Champions League side in that time period. Who's missing from the list of teams who've deserved to win it and haven't? Real Madrid probably, but that's about it, the other teams consistently reaching semis and finals in the past ten years have all won it.

I really am bemused at the idea that I'm having to explain why I think the Champions League is the best trophy to win. I thought it was really quite obvious. It's the competition of the best from across Europe. It's why clubs involved win the league a lot more than the Champions League, and why the Champions League final is one of the most watched sports events in the world.

 

[SWP's back]

The Manchester Derby is also one of the most football matches in the world (and the one before we won the league was the most watched domestic match in history at that time).

You may think it obvious but the "E"'s are being outvoted nearly 10 to 1 and that is with good reason.

A side can fluke the CL as Liverpool, Inter, Porto and Chelsea have done in the recent past. The fact Liverpool have been to two CL finals and won one during a 20 year period of not being able to win the domestic league tells you all you need to know.

There is kudos with winning the CL but a true test is the league.

 

[Skashion]

The Manchester Derby is also one of the most football matches in the world (and the one before we won the league was the most watched domestic match in history at that time).

You may think it obvious but the "E"'s are being outvoted nearly 10 to 1 and that is with good reason.

A side can fluke the CL as Liverpool, Inter, Porto and Chelsea have done in the recent past. The fact Liverpool have been to two CL finals and won one during a 20 year period of not being able to win the domestic league tells you all you need to know.

There is kudos with winning the CL but a true test is the league.

It's also the one with the biggest pot of money. No money for winning a derby.

About the same ratio as God botherers to atheists worldwide then. :-)

Inter and Porto were consistently winning their leagues and had an outstanding manager to match. As for Liverpool and Chelsea, Chelsea have won three titles in that time period and regular semi final appearances, certainly they were an excellent European side in this era. Liverpool, ok, an anomaly BUT doesn't even begin to compare to all the other clubs who had to win multiple league titles in order to collect a Champions League title. Ultimately, it is far easier to predictably win a title. Errors can be rectified. A period of bad form is commonplace. A six pointer can be lost. You blow a Champions League and that might be it for another five years. That's why it makes sense to swap a Champions League for a title win in any random year.

 

[SWP's back]

The Manchester Derby is also one of the most football matches in the world (and the one before we won the league was the most watched domestic match in history at that time).

You may think it obvious but the "E"'s are being outvoted nearly 10 to 1 and that is with good reason.

A side can fluke the CL as Liverpool, Inter, Porto and Chelsea have done in the recent past. The fact Liverpool have been to two CL finals and won one during a 20 year period of not being able to win the domestic league tells you all you need to know.

There is kudos with winning the CL but a true test is the league.

It's also the one with the biggest pot of money. No money for winning a derby.

About the same ratio as God botherers to atheists worldwide then. :-)

Inter and Porto were consistently winning their leagues and had an outstanding manager to match. As for Liverpool and Chelsea, Chelsea have won three titles in that time period and regular semi final appearances, certainly they were an excellent European side in this era. Liverpool, ok, an anomaly BUT doesn't even begin to compare to all the other clubs who had to win multiple league titles in order to collect a Champions League title. Ultimately, it is far easier to predictably win a title. Errors can be rectified. A period of bad form is commonplace. A six pointer can be lost. You blow a Champions League and that might be it for another five years. That's why it makes sense to swap a Champions League for a title win in any random year.

You see that is my point as well. The best team in the CL can play badly for 20 minutes in a tight game and not win it.

I know Chelsea had a decent spell domestically but they were the luckiest team in my life time to win the CL, the chunks of luck they had were like no other, they weren't in the best 15 teams in the continent that year but walked off with the ultimate prize.

I don't think we are going to convince each other however so may just be best to agree to disagree.

 

[Skashion]

I don't think we are going to convince each other however so may just be best to agree to disagree.

I agree.