Gaudion M said:mosssideblue said:OB1 said:I really don't know if you are right or wrong about Kolarov and high work rate teams but he has too many games where he defends poorly and today was a definite example of that. Our weaknesses at LB do cause problems for the LCB and Manga did suffer when having to defend out wide. However, I think he is getting rather too much stick for today's performance.
I'm with you. I like Eli and think he is starting to show signs of settling in. It gets difficult for him when the LB is having a mare and he feels the need to go that extra mile to cover their arses. I wouldn't be surprised to see a LB on our shopping list.
The games were Mangala looks poor are the ones were the opposition are playing well down their right / our left. If you think back to Hull they had a spell were it was all coming down our left (I think it was Clichy at LB then) and Mangala starts to look rash and clumsy although anyone who has played CB knows if your full back is getting skinned you have to slide over and more often than not you end up in a poor position and leaving the near post exposed.
I think the issue Managala has is we don’t have a reliable LB or left sided midfielder who makes that side of our formation secure. We often put Nasri or Silva on the left and they like to move in toward the ball, on top of that our full backs are expected to push on and that leaves a big gap. It is less of a problem on the right as Zab is excellent and we tend to have Navas or Milner on the right who work well with Zab (expecting him to overlap and tracking back to help when he does). On the left it is a different story although recently when Clichy has played well Mangala has looked really solid. I think he was really affected by Kolarov’s performance yesterday.
I would bring Clichy back in and if anything use Kolarov as a left sided midfielder to sure up the formation when we need it.
tolmie's hairdoo said:He was shocking yesterday, although Kolarov's indifference to the actual proceedings certainly won't have helped.
I do think we do have to be careful here. There are plenty who seem convinced Eliaquim will go on to become one of Europe's best. His debut against Chelsea would certainly point towards that.
However, I am genuinely shocked at how lacking he is, allied to his actual cost, in terms of the basic fundamentals.
His strength and aerial prowess should be the bare minimum from someone required in his position, but even that what sadly shown up by a journeyman player yesterday.
Never goal side, and from the majority of set-pieces, he allows his man acres of space to get the jump on him.
What I mean in terms of blues being careful?
I convinced myself for years that big money buys such as Bradbury, Balotelli, Taylor, Macken, Adebayor, would all come good.
It simply prejudiced what I could actually see with my eyes, but I wouldn't have it. They were never really up to it in the first place.
I'm not seeing nearly enough from Mangala, at present, to suggest he is going to be the world beater I assumed he was going to be for the price.
No doubt, he will improve, he surely has to? (that's my caveat right there ;)
But I have to remain a sceptic that he will go on to absolutely destroy the burden of his price tag, based on some shortcomings I would expect any defender, young or old, to be able to perform as a matter of course.
I do think Damocles makes a great point about the left back issue, although Demichelis eventually had to swap with Mangala due to him being bullied by Hughes both in the air and the ground.
I may also be mistaken, but from my vantage, Mangala was also the player who caught Zabba, simply by his rashness to clear, when Hart was fouled?
Bluewonder said:I think he's had a poor Christmas. Yesterday was the game that people will notice but he had a bit of a shocker against West Brom too. There were countless occasions where he was completely at a loss regarding Berahino's movement, as he was caught square on. We need Vinny back soon in order to give the lad a rest.
jollylescott said:^ A belated Merry Xmas Tolm.
It is a huge concern that there are so many deficiencies in his game. He seems to be lacking the natural positional awareness of a top class defender. As you said he allowed far too much space to his opponent and he gave away some very naive free kicks in dangerous positions.
As one person said yesterday there was an element of Bambi on ice. Eli is very awkward and doesn't appear to have the co-ordination and defensive sixth sense which should be expected from a 32 million purchase.
Of course all these elements can be worked upon, and he is still very young for a central defender. However 32 mill is a helluva lot of money and for that investment we need the best of the best.
It would be interesting to know Khaldoon's thoughts after the game. I am sure there would have been some very interesting conversations taking place behind the scenes!
tolmie's hairdoo said:jollylescott said:^ A belated Merry Xmas Tolm.
It is a huge concern that there are so many deficiencies in his game. He seems to be lacking the natural positional awareness of a top class defender. As you said he allowed far too much space to his opponent and he gave away some very naive free kicks in dangerous positions.
As one person said yesterday there was an element of Bambi on ice. Eli is very awkward and doesn't appear to have the co-ordination and defensive sixth sense which should be expected from a 32 million purchase.
Of course all these elements can be worked upon, and he is still very young for a central defender. However 32 mill is a helluva lot of money and for that investment we need the best of the best.
It would be interesting to know Khaldoon's thoughts after the game. I am sure there would have been some very interesting conversations taking place behind the scenes!
And also you, bud.
I don't think anyone thought we were purchasing the finished article?
But surely someone who can already make actual use of his physical attributes, both from an aerial standpoint and when touch-tight?
He's not even winning the majority of his personal battles. People were quick to slag off Demichelis, last season, but I was always impressed by him because he was attempting to do the right things, in spite of a national witch hunt that had plenty of our own eating it up.
It may come across that I am being hyper-critical of Eliaquim, and he has been the first to admit it has been a struggle.
Whereas Demichelis had that experience to continue to do the right things, even when they went wrong, Mangala does not have that luxury.
I do hope we back the lad with the addition of a proper left-back.
Mister Appointment said:tolmie's hairdoo said:jollylescott said:^ A belated Merry Xmas Tolm.
It is a huge concern that there are so many deficiencies in his game. He seems to be lacking the natural positional awareness of a top class defender. As you said he allowed far too much space to his opponent and he gave away some very naive free kicks in dangerous positions.
As one person said yesterday there was an element of Bambi on ice. Eli is very awkward and doesn't appear to have the co-ordination and defensive sixth sense which should be expected from a 32 million purchase.
Of course all these elements can be worked upon, and he is still very young for a central defender. However 32 mill is a helluva lot of money and for that investment we need the best of the best.
It would be interesting to know Khaldoon's thoughts after the game. I am sure there would have been some very interesting conversations taking place behind the scenes!
And also you, bud.
I don't think anyone thought we were purchasing the finished article?
But surely someone who can already make actual use of his physical attributes, both from an aerial standpoint and when touch-tight?
He's not even winning the majority of his personal battles. People were quick to slag off Demichelis, last season, but I was always impressed by him because he was attempting to do the right things, in spite of a national witch hunt that had plenty of our own eating it up.
It may come across that I am being hyper-critical of Eliaquim, and he has been the first to admit it has been a struggle.
Whereas Demichelis had that experience to continue to do the right things, even when they went wrong, Mangala does not have that luxury.
I do hope we back the lad with the addition of a proper left-back.
I sometimes feel like I watch completely different games to others. Yesterday he was unprotected because Kolarov was abysmal and as a result Mangala struggled (along with MD). Baring in mind that it was his 2nd game in 48 hours and his 6th or 7th in quick succession he's allowed a little dip in performance.
When I read the criticisms of his overall defending (positioning, aerial prowess, reading of the game, etc) it's where I become lost in terms of whether we watch different players. For me, Mangala is already a top centre half and one of the top five in the PL. He is literally a million miles ahead of the dross they have at United, Arsenal, Liverpool, and isn't behind Cahill.
Price tags are irrelevant as you and I both know Tolm ... Fernandinho was overpriced when we bought him but worth every penny by the end of last season.
tolmie's hairdoo said:He was shocking yesterday, although Kolarov's indifference to the actual proceedings certainly won't have helped.
I do think we do have to be careful here. There are plenty who seem convinced Eliaquim will go on to become one of Europe's best. His debut against Chelsea would certainly point towards that.
However, I am genuinely shocked at how lacking he is, allied to his actual cost, in terms of the basic fundamentals.
His strength and aerial prowess should be the bare minimum from someone required in his position, but even that what sadly shown up by a journeyman player yesterday.
Never goal side, and from the majority of set-pieces, he allows his man acres of space to get the jump on him.
What I mean in terms of blues being careful?
I convinced myself for years that big money buys such as Bradbury, Balotelli, Taylor, Macken, Adebayor, would all come good.
It simply prejudiced what I could actually see with my eyes, but I wouldn't have it. They were never really up to it in the first place.
I'm not seeing nearly enough from Mangala, at present, to suggest he is going to be the world beater I assumed he was going to be for the price.
No doubt, he will improve, he surely has to? (that's my caveat right there ;)
But I have to remain a sceptic that he will go on to absolutely destroy the burden of his price tag, based on some shortcomings I would expect any defender, young or old, to be able to perform as a matter of course.
I do think Damocles makes a great point about the left back issue, although Demichelis eventually had to swap with Mangala due to him being bullied by Barnes both in the air and on the ground.
I may also be mistaken, but from my vantage, Mangala was also the player who caught Zabba, simply by his rashness to clear, when Hart was fouled?
Mister Appointment said:tolmie's hairdoo said:jollylescott said:^ A belated Merry Xmas Tolm.
It is a huge concern that there are so many deficiencies in his game. He seems to be lacking the natural positional awareness of a top class defender. As you said he allowed far too much space to his opponent and he gave away some very naive free kicks in dangerous positions.
As one person said yesterday there was an element of Bambi on ice. Eli is very awkward and doesn't appear to have the co-ordination and defensive sixth sense which should be expected from a 32 million purchase.
Of course all these elements can be worked upon, and he is still very young for a central defender. However 32 mill is a helluva lot of money and for that investment we need the best of the best.
It would be interesting to know Khaldoon's thoughts after the game. I am sure there would have been some very interesting conversations taking place behind the scenes!
And also you, bud.
I don't think anyone thought we were purchasing the finished article?
But surely someone who can already make actual use of his physical attributes, both from an aerial standpoint and when touch-tight?
He's not even winning the majority of his personal battles. People were quick to slag off Demichelis, last season, but I was always impressed by him because he was attempting to do the right things, in spite of a national witch hunt that had plenty of our own eating it up.
It may come across that I am being hyper-critical of Eliaquim, and he has been the first to admit it has been a struggle.
Whereas Demichelis had that experience to continue to do the right things, even when they went wrong, Mangala does not have that luxury.
I do hope we back the lad with the addition of a proper left-back.
I sometimes feel like I watch completely different games to others. Yesterday he was unprotected because Kolarov was abysmal and as a result Mangala struggled (along with MD). Baring in mind that it was his 2nd game in 48 hours and his 6th or 7th in quick succession he's allowed a little dip in performance.
When I read the criticisms of his overall defending (positioning, aerial prowess, reading of the game, etc) it's where I become lost in terms of whether we watch different players. For me, Mangala is already a top centre half and one of the top five in the PL. He is literally a million miles ahead of the dross they have at United, Arsenal, Liverpool, and isn't behind Cahill.
Price tags are irrelevant as you and I both know Tolm ... Fernandinho was overpriced when we bought him but worth every penny by the end of last season.