Player Topic: Eliaquim Mangala (2015/16)

[Maldeika]

I'm sorry but no article is going to convince me that Mangala, in that moment, defended anything but poorly. Anything else is overthinking it on such a level it starts getting ridiculous.

I do not know the scenes - but when an opponent can go on a one vs one with a defender (especially with more speed) he usually is in a better position. If that happens there have been other mistakes made prior to that.

 

[YaYa's Left Peg]

True but how many times has Mangala been skinned with simple through balls this season and last. Would love the guy to succeed but he's just not top class

Maybe you and others are right. Mangala is just not good enough. But, hey, you know, let's just get behind him shall we? You never know, it might just work, and if it doesn't, well we gave him the best possible chance to succeed, and as they say you win some and you lose some.

By the way , I thought that was a brilliant through ball for Gomis, and even then, I thought Mangala had pushed him too wide to get past Joe. But the lad produced a cracker of a shot, and good luck to him. He better do the same when/if he gets a similar chance against our rivals.

 

[Phil1]

I do not know the scenes - but when an opponent can go on a one vs one with a defender (especially with more speed) he usually is in a better position. If that happens there have been other mistakes made prior to that.

Regardless of what happened previous, a fairly straight forward pass was made which left Mangala flat footed and once Gomis got in his stride he was allowed to get himself into a shooting position without much interference. He even pointed to where he wanted the ball playing and still Mangala's anticipation was non existent.

 

[ono]

True, but let's be fair here. We know where that ball is going because we've seen the replay. Mangala has to make a choice between running directly to his goalmouth, running straight towards the gap that's left, or following the player. He chose running towards the gap which he does every single bloody time no matter what.

Let's also be fair and say that 99 times out of 100 he made the right decision to pressure the defender with the ball an create an acute angle for the shot. Gomis' finish was ridiculous, that's an important thing to remember too.

But again, people are slagging him off for not successfully covering other people's mistakes. Those three players who I highlighted in the image have more more culpability for that goal than Mangala yet none of them are getting criticised as making the mistake because they aren't as visible. The left back facing the crowd for example rather than the pitch is infuriating; if he was alert he could have covered the side where the ball was an Mangala could have done exactly what he did and the danger would have been gone.

I agree here. Most of our conceded goals are put down to individual errors made by the person closest to the goal scorer, but in most cases there are fundamental problems further up the pitch which lead to these situations.

Firstly, I still think we try and manitain too much width with too few players when we have the ball. We stretch the pitch, but often with a midfield 2, and wingers which occupy roughly the same space as our full backs (when attacking) - especially so on the right hand side.

First off all, the distance between the players means our possession is often too slow, predictable and open to interceptions which then cause a transition. From a defensive view point, we lack any form of compactness which means we have no chance of counter pressing. We try to sporadically press but the pressing is rarely done as a team because this lack of compactness makes it impossible. So teams play through us, often through the middle of the pitch, which should never happen.

This normally leads to scenarios where our defenders have to react to a situation which is developing at high speed with the disadvantage of not knowing what the attacker is going to do. Kompany is excellent because of how aggressive he is and how great he is at reading play and timing tackles and interceptions (when fit). Otamendi is a good one vs one defender but his concentration and decision making is a bit off balance. Mangala is less aggressive in terms of making interceptions and often makes the mistake of allowing the opposition to shoot from what he believes to be a safe angle. Unfortunately for him, he's done this 3 times this season and 3 goals have come from it.

Now unless we clone Kompany (and keep them both fit - which might be harder), we will continue to be let down by our system, which we will then mistakingly blame on the centre backs. This will probably result in another £30m being spent on a defender without us really fixing the issue.

The issue lies with the manager in this case. He stresses attacking football as his philosophy and has a stubbornness to continue to play the same way regardless of the opposition. Against the better teams, the attacking side of our game is becoming less and less effective - especially now against more compact strikerless formations, and our defensive game and ability to handle turnovers in possession is taking a massive hit as well. We look outnumbered in both final thirds. We only really outnumber the oppisition in the wide areas of the attacking final third, but given our inability or lack of interest in crossing the ball, this advantage Is a false advantage. It doesn't benefit us that much.

I've gone off on a tangent defending Mangala here, but my point is we play a very flawed system and have done for a while now. In the past it only really got exposed at the top level, but now we are suffering against comparatively poorer teams. The pundits highlight the defenders and criticize their reactionary decision making, but the bigger problems are all over the pitch and as a team, we should be set up to minimise the amount of times our centre backs have to defend dangerous situations.

 

[bornblueegg]

It is true, but as you were a defender who played at a 'decent level' you're surley aware that at some point over the course of the game there will be a situation where it's down to you and you can't rely on the collective.
That's what happened on Saturday, it's not some big complicated play that was unstoppable, it was a pass in behind where the CB found himself flat footed because he hadn't anticipated the run. He then wasn't anywhere near strong enough in forcing Gomis away from goal and Hart was beaten by a great strike.
Thinking Mangala wasn't culpable in any way is a strange stance.

You're right, he should but mistakes do happen. Mangala is a good defender but he cannot always anticipate his fellow team mates getting their decisions wrong and making the correct decision to solve the situation. Do we say it was bad defending when Sergio goes up against two in-form defenders and scores or do we say Serg is brilliant. Every PL striker makes great decisions against any other team and bam - goal.

We will see

 

[domalino]

Oh and just to put to bed the "a defender with a brain would have reacted" shite.

I agree with your defence of Mangala, but in this situation, shouldn't he be stepping up and playing the offside trap, not following the run? Kolarov and Otamendi are a few yards ahead of him, can't see Sagna.

 

[Phil1]

You're right, he should but mistakes do happen. Mangala is a good defender but he cannot always anticipate his fellow team mates getting their decisions wrong and making the correct decision to solve the situation. Do we say it was bad defending when Sergio goes up against two in-form defenders and scores or do we say Serg is brilliant. Every PL striker makes great decisions against any other team and bam - goal.

We will see

Mate, I want him to succeed and accept that mistakes can happen to the very best. I just think he has to concentrate on improving his own game because at the moment he's struggling. Part of the reason is no doubt to do with the inconsistency throughout the back four but not all of it.
Hope you're the one calling it right pal, I really do.

 

[bornblueegg]

Mate, I want him to succeed and accept that mistakes can happen to the very best. I just think he has to concentrate on improving his own game because at the moment he's struggling. Part of the reason is no doubt to do with the inconsistency throughout the back four but not all of it.
Hope you're the one calling it right pal, I really do.

Lets be honest, we could moan about worse situations we find ourselves in rather than where we are. Chelsea are shite, Utd are imploding Arse have got injuries beyond even ours and we got Kiev in the CL.

We'll be right fella, for now lets always enjoy where we are - 2nd without a recognised striker, and after christmas stronger than anyone else.

Keep the faith Blue

 

[BigOscar]

He should have dealt with the ball better, he misread the ball for a split second and thought he could jump the route and intercept it, then realised he couldn't and had to switch to the more conservative route to try and get back between Gomis and goal. Had he been of the pace of some of our other defenders this would have been much more obvious, as he'd never have got back anywhere near Gomis and he'd have been allowed to cut inside and score easily, but his pace meant he got back into a close enough proximity that Gomis had to take on the shot from a very narrow angle, that on another day Hart would have saved, or it might well have just hit Hart tbh as Gomis really didn't aim the shot he just put his foot through it and hoped for the best.

Obviously before that it is a complete train wreck that we let a CB play a through ball all the way through our team along the ground, without anyone putting him under and pressure or being anywhere near the passing lane, but after that Mangala had to deal with it better. The reality is that the way our team plays, we force our defenders into these do or die situations pretty regularly and mistakes will be made and goals will come from them. That we were so open in the 89th minute when holding on to a one goal lead is just pretty appalling, but what we've all come to expect. No pressure on the ball, plus high line means defenders will have to make a lot of excellent decisions to prevent the other team getting in behind, as even a split second misjudgement like Mangala's against Gomis leads to an incredibly easily created chance.

 

[Phil1]

He should have dealt with the ball better, he misread the ball for a split second and thought he could jump the route and intercept it, then realised he couldn't and had to switch to the more conservative route to try and get back between Gomis and goal. Had he been of the pace of some of our other defenders this would have been much more obvious, as he'd never have got back anywhere near Gomis and he'd have been allowed to cut inside and score easily, but his pace meant he got back into a close enough proximity that Gomis had to take on the shot from a very narrow angle, that on another day Hart would have saved, or it might well have just hit Hart tbh as Gomis really didn't aim the shot he just put his foot through it and hoped for the best.

Obviously before that it is a complete train wreck that we let a CB play a through ball all the way through our team along the ground, without anyone putting him under and pressure or being anywhere near the passing lane, but after that Mangala had to deal with it better. The reality is that the way our team plays, we force our defenders into these do or die situations pretty regularly and mistakes will be made and goals will come from them. That we were so open in the 89th minute when holding on to a one goal lead is just pretty appalling, but what we've all come to expect. No pressure on the ball, plus high line means defenders will have to make a lot of excellent decisions to prevent the other team getting in behind, as even a split second misjudgement like Mangala's against Gomis leads to an incredibly easily created chance.

100% agree with your second paragraph. I was screaming like a lunatic at us to put some pressure onto them. You could see the gap a mile off from the thid tier. There was no urgency at all to try and make it hard for Swansea. I think that's why ive been more pissed off than I should have been considering we won. Watching us sit back at that stage of the game when we only had a one goal lead did my head in.