Player Topic: Kevin De Bruyne (2015/16)

[Tugay One Cup]

Fair enough I take your point.

My general view in regards stats is if they weren't relevant or important then why would clubs hire statisticians to analyse games?

Very true, I'm guessing Pep has a large number of them working for him as well. I'd say stats are very useful and I am being blasé (or wrong) when I say they're irrelevant. They're obviously excellent for research, media, fitness etc but its just correlated data that can be applied in many different ways to give you a false impression.

As an example, someone last week said that Yaya and Silva had virtually the same distance covered in the champions league and, therefore, Yaya works just as hard as David. It had to be pointed out that Silva holds a higher starting position which gives him less room to bomb forward and that Yaya's distance covered will be measured in both his gigantic strides forward and his slower jogs back through midfield. On the other hand, Silva spends ages moving around within small areas to create space for himself and others, passes the ball neatly instead of sprinting forward when in possession and runs back to put in a challenge when it's necessary.

This isn't a Yaya rant but I think it's an example of why stats should be observed at best but never have an argument formed around them unless you are prepared to go into more detail than it's worth.

 

[sir baconface]

^^ Excellent post, TOC. Stats are valuable but still require interpretation and correlation.

Frustrating when somebody quotes them out of context to "conclusively prove" their viewpoint.

 

[The Fat el Hombre]

He doesn't give the ball away every time though, that's the issue, it's not a fair argument as his passing is very good.

Course he doens't. Who gives the ball away every time?

Course his passing can be good - he's a wizard with the ball at times, but he needs to know when to go for the jugular or not. He was giving it away far, far too often for a top team earlier in the season. Thankfully as I said he's already showing signs of adapting his game

 

[mekonmcfc]

He doesn't give the ball away every time though, that's the issue, it's not a fair argument as his passing is very good.

he gives the ball away more than any other attacking player

 

[Neville Kneville]

I really hope we don't change DeBruyne into yet another sideways passer who won't take a chance of a cross or shot in case we lose the ball. He creates more chances imo, than the rest of the team put together.

If we want to balance it out, just sell Kolarov & replace him with a player who doesn't punt the ball aimlessly into the oppo defeders' legs 150 times a season, in the hope of finding a man ten times & creating a goal 4 or 5 times. Have someone there who keeps the ball & passes it to a blue shirt, then it balances out DeBruyne when he loses the ball.

 

[The Fat el Hombre]

I really hope we don't change DeBruyne into yet another sideways passer who won't take a chance of a cross or shot in case we lose the ball. He creates more chances imo, than the rest of the team put together.

If we want to balance it out, just sell Kolarov & replace him with a player who doesn't punt the ball aimlessly into the oppo defeders' legs 150 times a season, in the hope of finding a man ten times & creating a goal 4 or 5 times. Have someone there who keeps the ball & passes it to a blue shirt, then it balances out DeBruyne when he loses the ball.

Wanting him to not give the ball away as much as he did at the start of the season does not mean I want him to do a Nasri and pass sideways or backwards all the time. There's a balance in there believe it or not. Also don't agree that having other players who keep the ball balances it out - if there's a minimal chance of de Bruyne hitting who he's aiming for (and a very high chance the other teams defenders or keepers will pick it up) then move the ball on to another City player and keep looking for an opening until someone gets a decent enough crack at a shot or key pass. Don't go for the 10% or so chances of a key pass, keep hold of the ball cos we've got good players who can open them up and if we're patient and we probe then the right time will eventually come. Us scoring doesn't hinge on whether de Bruyne can manage to curl it round 3 defenders or not to get an assist, we're not wolfsburg we're better than that

Some people on here are saying that he hasn't played as well these past few games but I don't think he's done so bad myself. I thought against leicester he got the balance to his game much better than he has done in other away games - he kept hold of the ball when the killer passes weren't on, but when we worked an opening and it WAS on he put it on a plate for Aguero and if Kun was match sharp Kev woulda won us the game. I don't think it's any surprise that the team looked better on that whole with him not going for the jugular every time and surrendering possession far too often. There was also a 1-2 he did with Silva against watford that put him right in on the edge of the area for a shot (as opposed to crossing from a lesser angle) which to me showed signs of him adapting his game. If he can do more things like that (and I already think he is making an effort to, no matter how many people on here try to tell me it's ok to give the ball away so often) then I think he'll become much more consistent as a player and we will as a team.

 

[bobom]

Wanting him to not give the ball away as much as he did at the start of the season does not mean I want him to do a Nasri and pass sideways or backwards all the time. There's a balance in there believe it or not. Also don't agree that having other players who keep the ball balances it out - if there's a minimal chance of de Bruyne hitting who he's aiming for (and a very high chance the other teams defenders or keepers will pick it up) then move the ball on to another City player and keep looking for an opening until someone gets a decent enough crack at a shot or key pass. Don't go for the 10% or so chances of a key pass, keep hold of the ball cos we've got good players who can open them up and if we're patient and we probe then the right time will eventually come. Us scoring doesn't hinge on whether de Bruyne can manage to curl it round 3 defenders or not to get an assist, we're not wolfsburg we're better than that.

I disagree about finding a balance. His assists come not just from passing well but from passing quickly/early, and those come with a higher risk - albeit lower than with other players because his vision and execution is so good. He gets so many assists because he's willing to take those risks - but that means giving the ball away more often, too. If he cut out the mistakes he would also dramatically lower his assist rate.

The one things I think would help him would be 1) if we were faster transitioning into attack. He passes so well in broken play, but a lot of the time he (and the rest of our team) has to work against massed, organised defences. If we played a bit more directly his passing would be even more effective. And 2) if there was more movement off the ball up front. But I think with Aguero and Silva returning to the side that will come...

 

[dennishasdoneit]

he gives the ball away more than any other attacking player

And also scores and assists more than any other attacking player.
But we can always take the negative angle.

 

[Deleted member 58678]

Very true, I'm guessing Pep has a large number of them working for him as well. I'd say stats are very useful and I am being blasé (or wrong) when I say they're irrelevant. They're obviously excellent for research, media, fitness etc but its just correlated data that can be applied in many different ways to give you a false impression.

As an example, someone last week said that Yaya and Silva had virtually the same distance covered in the champions league and, therefore, Yaya works just as hard as David. It had to be pointed out that Silva holds a higher starting position which gives him less room to bomb forward and that Yaya's distance covered will be measured in both his gigantic strides forward and his slower jogs back through midfield. On the other hand, Silva spends ages moving around within small areas to create space for himself and others, passes the ball neatly instead of sprinting forward when in possession and runs back to put in a challenge when it's necessary.

This isn't a Yaya rant but I think it's an example of why stats should be observed at best but never have an argument formed around them unless you are prepared to go into more detail than it's worth.

Some stats suit an argument perfectly though. Especially the chances created for teammates stat (rather than assists). There's no over-egging that to suit an argument. If someone creates 80-90 chances a season for teammates then he gets in the team before anyone else.

 

[mcfc482]

Hes in the top 5 players in Europe for chances created this season. If you tell him him to stop taking risks then your going to hurt his game. Its actually refreshing to have a player like him in a team where possession is kept so well he will always hit the high risk pass and quite often rewards come from it.