Players who might improve us

[Larry Stranger]

This problem is created by inverted wingers, it forces the fullbacks to provide the width and leaves the CDM isolated. The only mitigation is dropping one of the #8's deeper which stiffles their creativity which is essentially what they're in the team to provide. This is why Sane or another left footed winger is absolutely crucial to getting back to our best.

Yes and no. I was just watching the Newcastle game where we drew 2-2.
We were basically set up like this in attack.

-----------------------------Jesus---------------------------
Mendy--------Sterling----------------KDB-------------------
---------Silva-----------------------------------------Mahrez
--------------Gundogan-------Walker---------------------
---------------Dinho--------------------Stones-------------

When we attacked on the left it was trying to link up between Silva, Mendy and Sterling. The object was to play Sterling little 1-2's with him using his shiftiness inside. It was working pretty well in which how he scored the first goal. The outlet was always Mendy who Newcastle just left alone. They didn't mind him crossing from out wide which is the least effective. It's easy to read and defend because he's not getting in behind the defence.

There are lots of factors when we lose the ball. With this set up, when we lost it on the left, Mahrez was helping defend on the counter attack. In the past was the 2 wingers in Sane and Sterling would sprint back to help defend. Because of their speed they broke up a lot of counters. Both Mahrez and Mendy (who's essentially the other winger) aren't as quick to help out. Also it's hard for Dinho being his first year as CB and having to deal with fast and physical strikers on his own rather than from a DM position.

The thing is that the formation wouldn't stay like this the entire game. There were times when KDB went wide and Mahrez played next to Jesus. Sometimes Kev dropped deep and Walker out wide. Pep's known for changing formations a lot during games. We had at least 2 clear cut chances from Jesus and Bernardo playing thru the middle before Kev's belter. Then Shelvey equalized.

 

[ctid1894]

Yes and no. I was just watching the Newcastle game where we drew 2-2.
We were basically set up like this in attack.

-----------------------------Jesus---------------------------
Mendy--------Sterling----------------KDB-------------------
---------Silva-----------------------------------------Mahrez
--------------Gundogan-------Walker---------------------
---------------Dinho--------------------Stones-------------

When we attacked on the left it was trying to link up between Silva, Mendy and Sterling. The object was to play Sterling little 1-2's with him using his shiftiness inside. It was working pretty well in which how he scored the first goal. The outlet was always Mendy who Newcastle just left alone. They didn't mind him crossing from out wide which is the least effective. It's easy to read and defend because he's not getting in behind the defence.

There are lots of factors when we lose the ball. With this set up, when we lost it on the left, Mahrez was helping defend on the counter attack. In the past was the 2 wingers in Sane and Sterling would sprint back to help defend. Because of their speed they broke up a lot of counters. Both Mahrez and Mendy (who's essentially the other winger) aren't as quick to help out. Also it's hard for Dinho being his first year as CB and having to deal with fast and physical strikers on his own rather than from a DM position.

The thing is that the formation wouldn't stay like this the entire game. There were times when KDB went wide and Mahrez played next to Jesus. Sometimes Kev dropped deep and Walker out wide. Pep's known for changing formations a lot during games. We had at least 2 clear cut chances from Jesus and Bernardo playing thru the middle before Kev's belter. Then Shelvey equalized.

You're over complicating it. I've got no problem with us using inverted wingers if we've identified a specific weakness, it can definitely work but not as a default tactic. As a default tactic wingers need to be able to get in behind and provide first time crosses in between the goalkeeper and defence.

Without that direct threat opposition fullbacks just have to concentrate on what is in front of them, it requires no thought process because they can see every movement.

 

[Larry Stranger]

You're over complicating it. I've got no problem with us using inverted wingers if we've identified a specific weakness, it can definitely work but not as a default tactic. As a default tactic wingers need to be able to get in behind and provide first time crosses in between the goalkeeper and defence.

Without that direct threat opposition fullbacks just have to concentrate on what is in front of them, it requires no thought process because they can see every movement.

I never said we didn't need a winger. It was more about your point of the #8 dropping back.

 

[ctid1894]

I never said we didn't need a winger. It was more about your point of the #8 dropping back.

Sorry your post was that convoluted that I didn't understand what point you were trying to make. Even reading it back 3-4 times I'm still struggling to see where you discuss the #8's positioning positively or negatively. My apologies if it's me not interpreting something correctly.

- Sterling coming inside
- Mendy staying wide
- Wingers defending well
- Dinho at CB
- KDB rotating with Walker

 

[richards30]

Upamecano
Semedo
Telles
Auoar
Sancho

 

[ctid1894]

Upamecano
Semedo
Telles
Auoar
Sancho

Unicorns and ponies.

 

[Larry Stranger]

Sorry your post was that convoluted that I didn't understand what point you were trying to make. Even reading it back 3-4 times I'm still struggling to see where you discuss the #8's positioning positively or negatively. My apologies if it's me not interpreting something correctly.

- Sterling coming inside
- Mendy staying wide
- Wingers defending well
- Dinho at CB
- KDB rotating with Walker

Yes, I apologize if it's convoluted. Pep's formations can be complicated and I was just trying to analyze it. So your quote on the 8's were.

"This problem is created by inverted wingers, it forces the fullbacks to provide the width and leaves the CDM isolated. The only mitigation is dropping one of the #8's deeper which stiffles their creativity which is essentially what they're in the team to provide."

So I was providing an example of inverted wingers (Sterling and Mahrez) and the the 8's still staying high in Silva and KDB to provide creativity.

Pep usually has 5 players attack and 5 defend. So in this game at attacking players were Jesus, Sterling, Silva, KDB and either Mendy or Mahrez depending on what side of the pitch we were attacking. The 5 defending were Dinho, Stones, Gundo, Walker and Mendy or Mahrez. The wide players in Mahrez and Mendy in this game had to help defend. In the past Sane and Sterling defended counters well mainly due to their speed.

Another thing was how some people want a more defensive #6 and I was saying how Pep likes to play with a Gundogan type in the position and how he tries to get away with it. So looking at the defensive side, it was Walker next to Gundo in midfield with Mahrez being wide right and having to almost be a RB on counters. Also Dinho being new to the CB position (we all know our CB problems) is part of the reasons we had trouble defending counters this season and not only due to Rodri or Gundo. So I'm saying we don't necessarily need a defensive #6 as long as we have the right players around him to help protect on counter attacks.

It was just an overall analysis of what I saw against Newcastle. The Kev and Walker rotating along with Mahrez next to Jesus shows how many times Pep changes the position of players throughout a single game.

 

[ctid1894]

Yes, I apologize if it's convoluted. Pep's formations can be complicated and I was just trying to analyze it. So your quote on the 8's were.

"This problem is created by inverted wingers, it forces the fullbacks to provide the width and leaves the CDM isolated. The only mitigation is dropping one of the #8's deeper which stiffles their creativity which is essentially what they're in the team to provide."

So I was providing an example of inverted wingers (Sterling and Mahrez) and the the 8's still staying high in Silva and KDB to provide creativity.

Pep usually has 5 players attack and 5 defend. So in this game at attacking players were Jesus, Sterling, Silva, KDB and either Mendy or Mahrez depending on what side of the pitch we were attacking. The 5 defending were Dinho, Stones, Gundo, Walker and Mendy or Mahrez. The wide players in Mahrez and Mendy in this game had to help defend. In the past Sane and Sterling defended counters well mainly due to their speed.

Another thing was how some people want a more defensive #6 and I was saying how Pep likes to play with a Gundogan type in the position and how he tries to get away with it. So looking at the defensive side, it was Walker next to Gundo in midfield with Mahrez being wide right and having to almost be a RB on counters. Also Dinho being new to the CB position (we all know our CB problems) is part of the reasons we had trouble defending counters this season and not only due to Rodri or Gundo. So I'm saying we don't necessarily need a defensive #6 as long as we have the right players around him to help protect on counter attacks.

It was just an overall analysis of what I saw against Newcastle. The Kev and Walker rotating along with Mahrez next to Jesus shows how many times Pep changes the position of players throughout a single game.

I agree with some aspects, but in that game (memory is faded so apologies) Silva dropped in to play in the 3 alongside Gundogan and Walker in possession in the 1st half, if memory serves me right, apologies if I'm incorrect. Even in your original formation layout (top of page 366) you show Silva playing behind Sterling and KDB in the middle, even if he was allowed considerably more freedom to push forward than Gundogan and Walker, that was more down to Newcastle's absolute reluctance to play. When Silva did go forward KDB dropped back centrally and Gundogan shifted over to protect the left hand side where Silva had vacated. On a couple of occasions Sterling also did Silva's running to allow Silva time to recover physically high up the pitch with his legs sadly failing him these days.

Mendy obviously dropped in to left back to make it a more conventional 433 when we lost possession (20% or something stupid I think). Even Silva's starting position when he received the ball to setup Sterling's goal is alongside Gundogan and Walker.

2nd half was more conventional, I think Phil replaced Dave and then we made a few other changes, fuck knows after that, the booze kicked in.

 

[g180aj]

Upamecano
Semedo
Telles
Auoar
Sancho

I'd be made up with 3 of them, all 5 would guarantee the league next season.

 

[King Jay]

I'd be made up with 3 of them, all 5 would guarantee the league next season.

So how much more are going to invest into the Defence? I‘m fine with only Upamecano and Aouar. Telles& Mendy is too much imo. Telles would probably let Mendy look like the next flop. Sancho‘s best position is RW. Guess who‘s best position it is. Yeah Sterling, Mahrez and Bernardo. Semedo is the same type of player like Cancelo.