Political relations between UK-EU

[Vic]

Do you really want our beautiful countryside to be gone for ever?

By and large, new immigrants aren't buying big houses being built on greenfield sites. But rich foreigners buying property for investment are distorting the housing market in London.

It's not immigrants who have not built the million homes with planning consent that haven't been built since 2010. It is private firms who want more profit that haven't built them.

Edit: actually, if they had been built, it would probably have been a lot of immigrants doing the actual building...

 

[Ban-jani]

By and large, new immigrants aren't buying big houses being built on greenfield sites. But rich foreigners buying property for investment are distorting the housing market in London.

It's not immigrants who have not built the million homes with planning consent that haven't been built since 2010. It is private firms who want more profit that haven't built them.

I’m not blaming immigrants for anything, I’m purely talking the problem we’d arrive at if we continued with freedom of movement.

We can cope currently but to continue with net 500,000 people per year and in the future the country looks completely different.

Nearly everything must be brownfield imo, moving forward and to do so, we need a more sensible immigration policy, which it looks like we now have.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Never understood how europe can decide have a single currency and then an inbalance on pay for people of the same skillset across the federation, once a centralised bank and currency was in place then the countries should have become economically balanced.

This is the fundamental problem with the Euro. You simply cannot have an effective single currency across countries where there are fundamental economic differences. It defies the laws of economics.

Prior to the Euro, those countries had the twin methods of interest rates and exchange rates to address imbalances. They could change either of these to make the country more attractive to inward investment or discourage outward flows. Now the countries in the Eurozone, like Greece, can't do that because they're tied in to the ECB via the Euro.

The Euro suits countries with net export surpluses over countries that, say, rely on tourism (where exchange rates are hugely important). Now, which country has large trade surpluses?

The Euro is the equivalent of a doctor telling every patient to take 2 Paracetamol 3 times a day, irrespective of their symptoms. It might help some who have aches & pains but won't help someone with a more serious condition.

 

[Vic]

There are a whole range of prevailing conditions that will lead to the 'bubbling issues' to become 'boiling over crises'

It is not simply 'all working well in 30 countries'

Europe in crisis....

UK - crisis, what crisis? Debt, housing, health, care, poverty. At least they are our own sovereign crises.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

There are a whole range of prevailing conditions that will lead to the 'bubbling issues' to become 'boiling over crises'

It is not simply 'all working well in 30 countries'

Its only 'bubbling ' in countries with far right Conservative Nationalistic governments tho isn't it? (notice a trend there).

I admire Bobs courage in asking the question of ''Whats your longer term strategic view of our relationship with the Eu' because where we are right now is that 50% of the UK are very unhappy about being out and there are already ''Rejoin'' groups popping up on social media platforms, some of them are quite vociferous.

Probably a similar amount also believe that our current state is built on shifting sands.... those sands being the Lies of the leave campaigners, the involvement of Cambridge Analytica, Banks , Farage et al and their Russian funding, .... the discontent will become more vocal when the promises made are broken (they are already) , the sunny uplands don't appear and the Union fragments.

Every little inconvenience , Everything that goes wrong from now on in will be placed at the door of Brexit and those that facilitated it.

The Tories will be too busy trying to sandbag the floodwaters to actually achieve anything other than maintain the status quo (all they do anyway) and line their own pockets.

 

[urban genie]

It is very much crowded, unless we want to spend a fortune on ruining the countryside.

Which still wouldn’t solve infrastructure problems, all that would do is solve the housing crisis.

Not sure what the monarchy has to do with it.

Rather than doing all that, wouldn’t it make sense to have a sensible points based system like NZ, AUS, Canada have, reduce numbers but continue to allow those we need to come?

Because you tried using our countryside being lost as a reason why we cannot build when in reality 32% of the country is owned by the morachy and landed gentry with no access to the public so there is a solution build in the grouse shooting land or the maybe one of the several estates the Duke of Buccleuch has when one is enough for anyone.

As for infrastructure, well it was all sold off for profit by governments past and will take more than stopping people comimg in a functioning one again.

Back to the point, saying the country is crowded is a lazy and uniformed trope peddled for years that is blatenly untrue.

But youll will disagree and reply I expect and contunue a conversation neither of us will agree upon.

Also I never said don't have an imigration system and just let anyone come, but as someone with experience of the nonsnese we have when it comes to visa and leave to remain the system as is beimg run by government is not fit for purpose and neither will be whatever they put into place.

 

[Ban-jani]

Its only 'bubbling ' in countries with far right Conservative Nationalistic governments tho isn't it? (notice a trend there).

I admire Bobs courage in asking the question of ''Whats your longer term strategic view of our relationship with the Eu' because where we are right now is that 50% of the UK are very unhappy about being out and there are already ''Rejoin'' groups popping up on social media platforms, some of them are quite vociferous.

Probably a similar amount also believe that our current state is built on shifting sands.... those sands being the Lies of the leave campaigners, the involvement of Cambridge Analytica, Banks , Farage et al and their Russian funding, .... the discontent will become more vocal when the promises made are broken (they are already) , the sunny uplands don't appear and the Union fragments.

Every little inconvenience , Everything that goes wrong from now on in will be placed at the door of Brexit and those that facilitated it.

The Tories will be too busy trying to sandbag the floodwaters to actually achieve anything other than maintain the status quo (all they do anyway) and line their own pockets.

Being a conservative isn’t being far right.

It’s like saying being a social democrat is far left, it isn’t.

The two nations in Europe that went proper fascist in the 20th century, Italy and then more so Germany... some of the biggest enemies of those governments were traditional conservatives.

Conservatism says nothing about ethno-politics, the far right is all about it.

 

[west didsblue]

This is the fundamental problem with the Euro. You simply cannot have an effective single currency across countries where there are fundamental economic differences. It defies the laws of economics.

Prior to the Euro, those countries had the twin methods of interest rates and exchange rates to address imbalances. They could change either of these to make the country more attractive to inward investment or discourage outward flows. Now the countries in the Eurozone, like Greece, can't do that because they're tied in to the ECB via the Euro.

The Euro suits countries with net export surpluses over countries that, say, rely on tourism (where exchange rates are hugely important). Now, which country has large trade surpluses?

Fully agree with your comments about the Euro. I’ve always called it a flawed concept and the fact we weren’t part of it put us in a really good position when we were part of the EU. We only had minimal exposure to any Eurozone crises. In fact the only bailout we were involved in was the Irish one and that was a relatively small amount that’s been paid back. We had the best of both worlds with our Single Market access but outside the Eurozone. It concerns me that if we ultimately end up rejoining it might well be a condition of entry, which would ironically lead us to the closer integration that staying a member outside the Eurozone would have avoided.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Being a conservative isn’t being far right.

It’s like saying being a social democrat is far left, it isn’t.

The two nations in Europe that went proper fascist in the 20th century, Italy and then more so Germany... some of the biggest enemies of those governments were traditional conservatives.

Conservatism says nothing about ethno-politics, the far right is all about it.

Priti Patel , & Windrush holding on line 1

 

[Deleted member 77198]

This implies that the brightest and best are obliged to stay in Bulgaria. Why? It’s a country not a prison camp. If someone wants to make a life in another country than why make that difficult?

Why are we limiting opportunities for people based on an accident of birth? Born in UK, worlds your oyster, born in Bulgaria, your uncle’s pig farm needs you.

Sounds harsh to me :)

But that will ruin the Bulgarian economy in the long run. They estimate that 23% of Bulgarians will leave Bulgaria in the coming decades. So for the benefit of a few select countries that the EU wants to see prosper, there will be a plight of economic downturns in places like Bulgaria.

Then what happens if there are economic troubles that are out of control of the few select countries that plunge them into economic downturns? The smaller countries of the EU will never be able to contribute to a wider upturn. And the EU will suffer.

It’s the same kind of thinking that Thatcher had with centralising the economy around the City and taking industry away from the North and places like Cornwall. Whenever the City struggles, industry heartlands can no longer pull Britain out of decline.