Political relations between UK-EU

[west didsblue]

Brexit going well for prominent Brexiteer...the problem of Brexit and the Irish border? You could see it from space, lass.

I hope you're in group 2 so 1632 will clearly explain where and why it all went wrong, and which Remainer is to blame.

 

[Ban-jani]

You spent a whole summer in France? Shame you. or i or anyone else cannot do that now without jumping through several hoops first

It was less than 90 days :-)

 

[mcfc1632]

I meant I’m not your target audience as I do have more than a little knowledge of it. The mandates for the future relationship were only published by both sides in Feb 2020. You’re clearly very knowledgeable on brexit so you’ll know that for visas, the target in the political declaration was to aim for visa free travel if possible. That was always going to have to be part of the future agreement negotiations though as it’s clearly dependent on other things too, like agreements on services.

Arguing that solutioning comes before mandate and also saying you know a lot about programme management seems a pretty incompatible position to me though.

Im not saying I agree with him, just saying what his point was. Personally I don’t think they could have done anything apart from the impact docs they did as there was no mandate in place. Most sectors requirements would have been incompatible with their WA, let alone Johnson’s and even more so the future agreement.

Given Johnson’s government only gave their mandate in Feb and part of it was sticking to the initial dates (despite nine months of time we would have had already gone due to the delay in parliament), I’ve no sympathy for him in that regard.

Politely pointing out that you have this view of 'mandates' out of context

With regard to the work associated to managing the implementation of Brexit, including achieving as smooth a transition as possible, that should have been commenced in 2016 and continued onwards to at least 2022.

The provisional 'Mandate' was given in 2015 and confirmed in 2016.

 

[Vic]

Well this is all very interesting - I see members of the the mutual support/denial group are getting together again to give each comfort

Now the thing is - I do not have any need to spend my time convincing you guys of anything and your goading comments are of no interest to or have any impact on me.

I do have an interest though in helping other CITY fans who wish to understand the detail of matters. This is not a tribal Remain Vs Leave matter - Brexit is done - just interesting facts.

Here is the rub on this little topic. I consider there to be 3 'stakeholder groups':

1. You 3 and the others that are just, IMO, desperate to deny the reality of how these things should work - and stop others from being informed.

2. Those posters - whether a Remain or Leave supporter - that are interested in understanding how things should have worked since 2016 and where this incompetent government(s) went wrong.

3. Myself and some others with appropriate levels of experience - who are qualified to 'know' the reality of how things should have been commenced and managed since pre-2016 and have an interest in using the thread to help to inform others. We also feel confident enough to post our personal views.

So I guess - given that I have no interest in persuading group 1 of anything - those in group 2 have a simple decision to make.....

Which opinion would they look to heed to increase their understanding of how the government, since pre-2016 and up to now, should have mobilised and managed this major transformation programme?

The choice appears to be between group 1 and group 3. Included within group 3 is myself, who for many years the parts of the government responsible across the whole of the UK for establishing best practice in managing major transformation programmes has come to for advice on the subject and has requested to review and guide their major programmes, including Brexit readiness, against such best practice.

I am relaxed either way - but please understand if I do not feel that I have anything to learn from group 1 - I just seek to balance nonsense that is posted.

Whoosh.

I mean, it's gone over my head.

If the present situation is to blamed on mistakes and how it could all have been better with different work streams, and with real believers in charge, isn't that an admission that now and "looking forward" the situation is shit?

 

[penguins4kompany]

Look youre obviously a bunch of fascists here, 2016 is irrelevant, you're making arguments for your own case. I don't care I had a salient point to make re trump but was denied by a ' fascist' moderator. I will admit I went ott with the Pelosi lynch inference which is what I presume got me barred, but youre just falling in line if you can warrant calls for trump to be struck down on similar levels on a daily basis. Double standards.

 

[meltonblue]

Politely pointing out that you have this view of 'mandates' out of context

With regard to the work associated to managing the implementation of Brexit, including achieving as smooth a transition as possible, that should have been commenced in 2016 and continued onwards to at least 2022.

The provisional 'Mandate' was given in 2015 and confirmed in 2016.

I agree with your second paragraph but like has been said, Johnson had that choice and didn’t change it.

The provisional mandate is a world away from both the political declaration and the actual mandate for the future relationship.

Im fine with your point, just not with not blaming Johnson as much as May.

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

Brexit going well for prominent Brexiteer...the problem of Brexit and the Irish border? You could see it from space, lass.

"ah well, NI doesnt affect me...they can always vote for re-unification if they want...looking forward to the match tonight?"

 

[stonerblue]

It was less than 90 days :-)

Visa, work visa, cash in the bank, insurance, french driving licence, language test, sponsor etc etc..???

 

[stonerblue]

Well this is all very interesting - I see members of the the mutual support/denial group are getting together again to give each comfort

Now the thing is - I do not have any need to spend my time convincing you guys of anything and your goading comments are of no interest to or have any impact on me.

I do have an interest though in helping other CITY fans who wish to understand the detail of matters. This is not a tribal Remain Vs Leave matter - Brexit is done - just interesting facts.

Here is the rub on this little topic. I consider there to be 3 'stakeholder groups':

1. You 3 and the others that are just, IMO, desperate to deny the reality of how these things should have been managed and where the responsibility lay - and stop others from being informed.

2. Those posters - whether a Remain or Leave supporter - that are interested in understanding how things should have been managed since 2016 and where the incompetent government(s) went wrong.

3. Myself and some others with appropriate levels of experience - who are qualified to 'know' the reality of how things should have been commenced and managed since pre-2016 and have an interest in using the thread to help to inform others.

So I guess - given that I have no interest in persuading group 1 of anything - those in group 2 have a simple decision to make.....

Which opinion would they consider more knowledgeable to increasing their understanding of how the government, since pre-2016 and up to now and beyond, should have mobilised and managed this major transformation programme?

The choice appears to be between group 1 and group 3. Included within group 3 is myself, who for many years the parts of the government responsible across the whole of the UK for establishing best practice in managing major transformation programmes has come to for advice on the subject and has requested to review and guide their major programmes, including Brexit readiness, against such best practice.

I am relaxed either way - but please understand if I do not feel that I have anything to learn from group 1 - I just seek to balance nonsense that is posted.

So you're to blame then? I presume that you worked on this after whoever you blame for the shitshow?
And can you let me know which group i'm in, save further confusion?

 

[jay_mcfc]

I hope you're in group 2 so 1632 will clearly explain where and why it all went wrong, and which Remainer is to blame.

Fucking hell that's funny.