Political relations between UK-EU

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Vic said:
I'll treat this with the seriousness it doesn't deserve. Why would May's deal have meant more disruption to trade?
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He’s not saying that, he’s suggesting May and Robbins should have started preparing sooner and had more in place so that the transition could have been smoother.
 
meltonblue said:
He’s not saying that, he’s suggesting May and Robbins should have started preparing sooner and had more in place so that the transition could have been smoother.
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We could also have agreed a deal with more than 7 days to spare. In fact we could have agreed the deal we finally agreed over a year ago and spent the time getting ready. Or just agreed a better deal that was easier to implement, you know like the one we agreed for N.Ireland months ago.
 
1.618034 said:
What about the 18 months since?
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which is the crux of the matter - they got Johnson, they got their majority, they got the posturing and the sabre rattling and ultimately they got done up the wrong 'un and all they can fall back on is its the fault of a previous administration and avoid any suggestion that 18 months to get organised were just fucking wasted with the Tory Party purging itself of "non believers" and getting Frosty the Showman to pose and posture whilst caving on everything and thus the fishing industry is lost - all because of May and Robins........... as if
 
bluethrunthru said:
which is the crux of the matter - they got Johnson, they got their majority, they got the posturing and the sabre rattling and ultimately they got done up the wrong 'un and all they can fall back on is its the fault of a previous administration and avoid any suggestion that 18 months to get organised were just fucking wasted with the Tory Party purging itself of "non believers" and getting Frosty the Showman to pose and posture whilst caving on everything and thus the fishing industry is lost - all because of May and Robins........... as if
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If it wasn’t so fucking dire for the future prosperity of the country it would be comical.
 
Latest episode of Cornwall - a fishing life. Looking at the bigger trawlers at Newlyn (30m)

You don't even need to watch it. Here you go.

No new fishermen coming through - average age on trawlers is 60! Youngest is 28 (the whole fleet). Oldest on the boat is 74... 60 years at sea...

French boats with bigger quotas for hake (plus Spanish and Dutch).

A French boat comes close to their net (11 miles of it...)

Crabbing boats out of Newlyn - nearly all crewed by Latvians (complaining about shitty weather). Owned by local family (relying on FoM - without EU workers who's going to catch crabs?)

Dealing with risk (a moving factory floor).

Hundreds of British boats were scrapped (UK govt grants to do it) under EU scheme to conserve stocks.

Back at sea, they could catch more than quota. But it's quota in some fish (so any caught of those have to go back, even if dead, while they catch other species). Blaming Brussels, but it's not obvious how "taking back our waters" will really help as the story takes in the spin of the referendum campaign (Farage quoted that fishing is "the acid test of Brexit")

Back onshore, 19 Lithuanian women are processing the crabs. Low paid undercutting Brits? £30,000 p.a.!
19 of 10,000 EU workers in fish processing. Newlyn family say if they can't get people, they will just move the whole operation to France.

Gale warnings - stay out or head back for port with still room in the hold? Small boats go in, they stay out (as there will be less fish landed, the price will be higher).

MSC sustainability label has made hake popular in UK (most used to be exported). One boat sells its catch for £20k - 5 days work but between 4 (5?) crew.

Another boat gets a net in its prop - engine dies - drifting in heavy seas - nearest boat to help is 6 hours away - not easy to get a line across safely - towed back to port - but that's two boats stopped fishing early. The featured boat's catch fetched £40k.
 
meltonblue said:
He’s not saying that, he’s suggesting May and Robbins should have started preparing sooner and had more in place so that the transition could have been smoother.
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Yeah, I misunderstood his waffle. Still, it was Johnson's choice to stick to the original transition period. He could have had as long as he wanted, and we were assured (by IDS no less) that the scrutiny time for the WA was more than enough. Johnson's choice too not to extend the time for a deal when Covid hit. It was predicted that we might be leaving at the height of a second wave of virus. And then faffing around till the last minute (perhaps in the ridiculous belief that what we had was a "viable walkaway option").

In short, it was just more of the specious shite from mcfc1632. I thought that might sound harsh, but then I read the previous post. Anyone who can make light of this is a bit weird frankly.
 
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bluethrunthru said:
which is the crux of the matter - they got Johnson, they got their majority, they got the posturing and the sabre rattling and ultimately they got done up the wrong 'un and all they can fall back on is its the fault of a previous administration and avoid any suggestion that 18 months to get organised were just fucking wasted with the Tory Party purging itself of "non believers" and getting Frosty the Showman to pose and posture whilst caving on everything and thus the fishing industry is lost - all because of May and Robins........... as if
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Inconvenient truths ?
 
bluethrunthru said:
£40k for your catch. What a difference a Brexit makes...... Fish....a subject dear to Redwoods heart but which he has not tweeted on since New Years Eve...........how odd

www.itv.com

Major seafood company 'more or less finished' by Brexit | ITV News

The head of a major seafood company in the Scottish Borders says Brexit has "more or less" his business.
www.itv.com www.itv.com
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Eyemouth business. One of their biggest. Poor buggers, Eyemouth was a relatively busy fishing port too. One of the few left in South East Scotland.
 
1.618034 said:
What about the 18 months since?
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Im not saying I agree with him, just saying what his point was. Personally I don’t think they could have done anything apart from the impact docs they did as there was no mandate in place. Most sectors requirements would have been incompatible with their WA, let alone Johnson’s and even more so the future agreement.

Given Johnson’s government only gave their mandate in Feb and part of it was sticking to the initial dates (despite nine months of time we would have had already gone due to the delay in parliament), I’ve no sympathy for him in that regard.
 
The other issue with doing more preparation (May or Johnson) is that the problems would have become obvious, and leaked, and the last thing they wanted was people to realise how shite it would all be. (That's assuming they wouldn't lie about the problems.)
 
bluethrunthru said:
which is the crux of the matter - they got Johnson, they got their majority, they got the posturing and the sabre rattling and ultimately they got done up the wrong 'un and all they can fall back on is its the fault of a previous administration and avoid any suggestion that 18 months to get organised were just fucking wasted with the Tory Party purging itself of "non believers" and getting Frosty the Showman to pose and posture whilst caving on everything and thus the fishing industry is lost - all because of May and Robins........... as if
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west didsblue said:
If it wasn’t so fucking dire for the future prosperity of the country it would be comical.
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Vic said:
Yeah, I misunderstood his waffle. Still, it was Johnson's choice to stick to the original transition period. He could have had as long as he wanted, and we were assured (by IDS no less) that the scrutiny time for the WA was more than enough. Johnson's choice too not to extend the time for a deal when Covid hit. It was predicted that we might be leaving at the height of a second wave of virus. And then faffing around till the last minute (perhaps in the ridiculous belief that what we had was a "viable walkaway option").

In short, it was just more of the specious shite from mcfc1632. I thought that might sound harsh, but then I read the previous post. Anyone who can make light of this is a bit weird frankly.
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Well this is all very interesting - I see members of the the mutual support/denial group are getting together again to give each comfort

Now the thing is - I do not have any need to spend my time convincing you guys of anything and your goading comments are of no interest to or have any impact on me.

I do have an interest though in helping other CITY fans who wish to understand the detail of matters. This is not a tribal Remain Vs Leave matter - Brexit is done - just interesting facts.

Here is the rub on this little topic. I consider there to be 3 'stakeholder groups':

1. You 3 and the others that are just, IMO, desperate to deny the reality of how these things should have been managed and where the responsibility lay - and stop others from being informed.

2. Those posters - whether a Remain or Leave supporter - that are interested in understanding how things should have been managed since 2016 and where the incompetent government(s) went wrong.

3. Myself and some others with appropriate levels of experience - who are qualified to 'know' the reality of how things should have been commenced and managed since pre-2016 and have an interest in using the thread to help to inform others.

So I guess - given that I have no interest in persuading group 1 of anything - those in group 2 have a simple decision to make.....

Which opinion would they consider more knowledgeable to increasing their understanding of how the government, since pre-2016 and up to now and beyond, should have mobilised and managed this major transformation programme?

The choice appears to be between group 1 and group 3. Included within group 3 is myself, who for many years the parts of the government responsible across the whole of the UK for establishing best practice in managing major transformation programmes has come to for advice on the subject and has requested to review and guide their major programmes, including Brexit readiness, against such best practice.

I am relaxed either way - but please understand if I do not feel that I have anything to learn from group 1 - I just seek to balance nonsense that is posted.
 
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Ban-jani said:
I could have continued with French, I dropped it, I could converse comfortably and write fairly well. Probably wouldn’t have passed an exam at that point but I understand how difficult it is.

I was half joking at the GCSE point, I was better than that as I spent a whole summer in France and tried to learn it every day

My biggest regrets is not keeping going and not speaking it for several years.

On the immigration point, most nations include this. I’ve noticed Canada is being ignored for having the same system for a number of years but apparently it doesn’t work.
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You spent a whole summer in France? Shame you. or i or anyone else cannot do that now without jumping through several hoops first
 
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