Political relations between UK-EU

I think things will have to be incredibly bleak here and have us crawling on our bellies begging for re-admittance in the foreseeable future because the price whenever we do will be FoM, ECJ, Euro the whole nine yards and going back on worse terms than we had will be a really hard sell - unless things are so bad here that anything will do......at which point the EU will be aware of that and we will be at their mercy.
We’ll get worse terms of course bit I believe the EU would welcome us back. The disastrous drawn out withdrawal, the divisions it’s created in UK society, the economic damage done and our subsequent desperate U turn will guarantee the block’s solidity for generations. It will happen. It’s just a question of when. 10-15 years would be my guess. Rejoining will win someone an election.
 
We’ll get worse terms of course bit I believe the EU would welcome us back. The disastrous drawn out withdrawal, the divisions it’s created in UK society, the economic damage done and our subsequent desperate U turn will guarantee the block’s solidity for generations. It will happen. It’s just a question of when. 10-15 years would be my guess. Rejoining will win someone an election.
Depends how badly it goes. Three weeks in it’s worse than I expected. If it carries on getting worse rather than reaching a steady state it could be a campaign issue at the next election. The impact on services hasn’t yet become apparent. If services are hit as hard it will make the problems with fish, livestock, NI and logistics look trivial.
 
You categorise it as a hard left position without describing why it is a hard left position. Unless you consider Democratic Socialists such as Benn as hard left.

It is no wonder the left get no hearing when even the middle of the road leftists are described as Hard Left. What you are doing is using the Daily Mail tactic of describing anything remotely left wing as Hard Left..

Corbyn could not dictate party policy, it is a Democratic party and policy is decided democratically at conference.

Labour Leave

Like the right wing leave the left wing leave also had different ideas of how it should end. For instance The Morning Star supported Lexit as it is a Democratic Socialist stance not a Social Democratic stance. What i would consider the soft left or liberal left were Pro EU but they are comfortable with capitalist excess. Blair himself said that Labour should be comfortable for millionaires.

Yes it did. Farage and Johnson may be proponents of what they like, but they have gambled as well, if brexit does go tits up as is proving the case at the moment due to the sheer incompetence of Johnson, then the door is open to take the country to the left. Shame we have Keith in charge

Not to my satisfaction and it got little traction as RW leave dominated the print media. Most remainer's here argue for the status quo, a position that in my mind was untenable.

As we have seen

The fight is against neo-liberalism, it is against the reservoir of nutjobbery that brought us the stupidity of those economic policies

Lexit was a product of the referendum, Labour Euroscepticism had long lay dormant after the split that lead to the SDP, when in Foots manifesto Labour pledged to take us out of the EU

Osborne (because Cameron is too thick) knew that a referendum could solve Tory disharmony and sew seeds of disharmony in the left. Rather clever of him.

There was no way though a Tory government would skirt around those rules, the Steel industry being point. Only a Labour left led brexit would be enable it.

Yes our governments attachment to neo-liberal economics and its inherent anti state/pro free market stance.

I wish he had been true to his convictions and led the Labour leave campaign.

In your opinion.

The grievance is the Tories fucking up brexit to such an extent things may happen. Brexit itself is still an ideologically sound position, it is just been undertaken by the wrong sort of lunatics.

As is clinging to the EU with its sops to workers and kowtowing to finance.

The fact remains though, we are where we are. We have an extreme right wing brexit that will i fear lead us to a more libertarian, ultra neo-liberal, anti democratic country which i will despise.

It is not my fault though that silly cunts vote Tory.

Yes, Benn would be termed as hard-left certainly the positions he took later in life outside of the cabinet . Corbyn's historical positions prior to his leadership were hard left too. I wasn't using it as a slur, it's not of soft left and it certainly isn't of the far left like the committed marxists in fringe organisations or violent terrorists like the Red Army Faction. Lexit is hard-left by virtue of it's loudest proponents being on the hard left.

It was reported that Corbyn said during a meeting with Jon Lansman "I better not bloody win". They never thought they could win, but they wanted to make the case against austerity and drag Burnham to the left. I recall it was the two Telegraph journalists who published a book that reported this comment following the 2019 defeat.

Here is an article from 2015.

www.businessinsider.com/theory-jeremy-corbyn-doesnt-want-to-be-leader-of-the-labour-party-2015-11%3famp

And of course he isn't a natural leader or ever had any personal ambition of holding office before the leadership election. I don't think even the most ardent loyalists would claim Corbyn fulfilled the traditional criteria of a good leader.

On the face of it the pledges/demands on the Labour leave site are not particularly distinct from the right wing brexit expression. Anti immigration sentiment against free movement and support for export led growth. It seems stuck in the neomercantilism vision of the right but with concessions for workers rights.

I wouldn't identify as a remainer anymore, but I would call myself a rejoiner. I'm not clinging to the EU, there are good parts and bad parts to it but it's on the whole, a net positive. The European political project has always been about more than just neo-liberalism.
 
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55725718
Oh well....
So much for buccaneering Britain.
Brexit boost - for the USA

The UK said it would drop tariffs against the US over subsidies for aerospace firms. The US said the UK had no authority to impose tariffs anyway.

The US Trade Representative said that only the EU sued the US at the WTO, while the UK "did not bring a case in its individual capacity."

"Therefore, the UK has no authority from the WTO to participate in any such action after it is no longer is part of the EU."
 
fuckin' experts eh? When I mentioned this at the time it was ridiculed because the ITK's on this thread had no idea how drivers were paid - well here it is - anyone who knows better than a 30 year owner of a freight forwarding company is welcomed to dispute his conclusions.

 

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