Political relations between UK-EU

[Ban-jani]

No, because I don't rely on non-objective sources like the Torygraph.

Leavers:
"Nurses and health visitors are the only staff group to record a fall in the number of recorded EU nationals since the EU referendum. EU nurses as a percentage of those with a known nationality have fallen from 7.4% of the total to 6.0%. EU doctors have fallen to 9.1% from 9.7%, having risen as high as 9.9% in March 2017."

Joiners:
"The data shows that EU/EEA nationals have fallen as a percentage of all
joiners to the NHS since 2015/16, from 10.9% to 7.2%. Meanwhile, the
percentage of joiners with a non-EU/EEA nationality has risen from
8.7% in 2014/15 to 14.5% in 2019."

NHS staff from overseas: statistics - House of Commons Library

Over 67,000 NHS staff in England are EU nationals - 5.5% of all staff. Overall, 13.8% of NHS staff say that their nationality is not British. Facts and figures on the nationality of NHS staff for doctors, nurses and other groups, and changes since the Brexit vote.

commonslibrary.parliament.uk

This is almost laughable, now you’re making arguments for other people so you can manufacture a response to win an argument.

Deary me.

Anyway, I don’t just rely on the Telegraph, I also read the Independent, BBC, Times and even occasionally the Guardian. This is a weird thing in 2021 but I actually
want to hear from those I generally disagree with.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Why? Which paper do you like?

It’s not about what I like. It’s about recognising bias. The Telegraph’s demographic is old posh Tories and it is by far the most right wing of the broadsheets, including pandering to that demographic’s xenophobia. It’s as biased right wing as the Guardian is left wing. The Indeoendant is left leaning but not as far as The Guardian. The Times is the closest we have to sitting towards the middle. All of them might occasionally have articles which go against their core beliefs but it’s about 1%.

 

[Ban-jani]

It’s not about what I like. It’s about recognising bias. The Telegraph’s demographic is old posh Tories and it is by far the most right wing of the broadsheets, including pandering to that demographic’s xenophobia. It’s as biased right wing as the Guardian is left wing. The Indeoendant is left leaning but not as far as The Guardian. The Times is the closest we have to sitting towards the middle. All of them might occasionally have articles which go against their core beliefs but it’s about 1%.

I’d agree with the 2nd half of that but I genuinely think you’re being a bit harsh on the Telegraph. It’s a small c conservative paper that does attack the government when they deserve it and sometimes they bash the Tories when I’ve thought they’ve been a little harsh.

I would say in terms of political leanings on a political compass, the Times is in the middle, with it being straddled by the Telegraph and Independent, then the Guardian is way out on the left, often engaging in identity politics.

The reason I see the Telegraph as objective is that whilst they have political bias, they will criticise their own side when they’re not good enough.

They’re not just a Tory mouth piece, like the Indy is a LibDem mouth piece and the Guardian Labour.

 

[Vic]

This is almost laughable, now you’re making arguments for other people so you can manufacture a response to win an argument.

Deary me.

Anyway, I don’t just rely on the Telegraph, I also read the Independent, BBC, Times and even occasionally the Guardian. This is a weird thing in 2021 but I actually
want to hear from those I generally disagree with.

No idea what the first sentence means.

I guess you think the Independent is independent! Owned by a Russian security-risk mate of Johnson, rewarded with a peerage. Baron Lebedev of Hampton and Siberia.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

It’s not about what I like. It’s about recognising bias. The Telegraph’s demographic is old posh Tories and it is by far the most right wing of the broadsheets, including pandering to that demographic’s xenophobia. It’s as biased right wing as the Guardian is Liberal . The Indeoendant is left leaning but not as far as The Guardian. The Times is the closest we have to sitting towards the middle. All of them might occasionally have articles which go against their core beliefs but it’s about 1%.

The Guardian isn't as left wing as some would like to think, particularly when they or their sister paper have a habit of backing the Lib Dems in general elections when they have no chance of winning a majority.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

I’d agree with the 2nd half of that but I genuinely think you’re being a bit harsh on the Telegraph. It’s a small c conservative paper that does attack the government when they deserve it and sometimes they bash the Tories when I’ve thought they’ve been a little harsh.

I would say in terms of political leanings on a political compass, the Times is in the middle, with it being straddled by the Telegraph and Independent, then the Guardian is way out on the left, often engaging in identity politics.

The reason I see the Telegraph as objective is that whilst they have political bias, they will criticise their own side when they’re not good enough.

They’re not just a Tory mouth piece, like the Indy is a LibDem mouth piece and the Guardian Labour.

I don’t believe you are being in any way objective about this mate. I have smelt a fairly hard right wing undercurrent to some of your views for a while to be honest despite you being once a remainer. That’s not a criticism, it’s your opinion to have and you’re not a blinkered idiot or thick like some on these threads.

This is old now but is probably a good summary. https://www.oxford-royale.com/articles/a-guide-to-british-newspapers/

Anyway, I can’t be arsed with what is a fairly shit and dull discussion. I’m off to watch the rest of the battle of wankers ;-)

 

[Ban-jani]

No idea what the first sentence means.

I guess you think the Independent is independent! Owned by a Russian security-risk mate of Johnson, rewarded with a peerage. Baron Lebedev of Hampton and Siberia.

You’ve blatantly never read it if you think it does Johnson any favours whatsoever. The independent hates Brexit and Johnson with a burning passion.

 

[hilts]

Why? Which paper do you like?

The New European

All the latest news, commentary and analysis on Brexit from The New European

www.theneweuropean.co.uk

Would be my bet:-)

 

[Ban-jani]

I don’t believe you are being in any way objective about this mate. I have smelt a fairly hard right wing undercurrent to some of your views for a while to be honest despite you being once a remainer. That’s not a criticism, it’s your opinion to have and you’re not a blinkered idiot or thick like some on these threads.

This is old now but is probably a good summary. https://www.oxford-royale.com/articles/a-guide-to-british-newspapers/

Anyway, I can’t be arsed with what is a fairly shit and dull discussion. I’m off to watch the rest of the battle of wankers ;-)

There’s nothing hard right about my views, believe me. Hard right means generally ethno-politics and I hate that more than anything else, even more than communism. Both fringes, left and right are authoritarian and I hate that style of government too.

Not that I am going to nor will you read it, but if I wrote my entire views and why I supported each one, you’d think I was soft more than anything.

My point on the papers is this, I don’t mind if they have political bias, I actually expect it, but call out the party that you agree with most if they do something wrong... which the TG does to be fair to them.

 

[Len Rum]

It’s not about what I like. It’s about recognising bias. The Telegraph’s demographic is old posh Tories and it is by far the most right wing of the broadsheets, including pandering to that demographic’s xenophobia. It’s as biased right wing as the Guardian is left wing. The Indeoendant is left leaning but not as far as The Guardian. The Times is the closest we have to sitting towards the middle. All of them might occasionally have articles which go against their core beliefs but it’s about 1%.

I do agree with your comments on the Telegraph - it has become a client newspaper for the Tory party.
Not so sure with the rest of your analysis.
The Times is full on Tory ( it's owned by Murdoch).
The Indy is liberal.
The Guardian is left of centre ( in UK terms that is i.e. not very left).
Unlike it's Tory rivals the Guardian does not give unconditional support for Labour.
The British press (in terms of the number of pro Conservative papers and circulation) has become virtually a mouthpiece for the Tory party and is a national disgrace.