NHS winter crisis fears grow after thousands of EU staff quit
Mass resignations after Brexit vote compound health staffing shortages
www.theguardian.com
Political relations between UK-EU
- Thread starter Ric
- Start date
www.theguardian.com
That would be the paper whose chief political correspondent for The Telegraph wrote this: "Biden's great, great, great grandfather, Edward Blewitt, left Ballina, Co. Mayo, Ireland for America during the Irish famine 170 years ago, which could mean he is well disposed towards Great Britain."
If you think the Torygraph is objective, you're not.
According to your first article, the percentage of EU workers who have left is only 8.3% of those in the UK and this is, as it states in the article, because of Covid and them either losing their jobs, so going home to their parents.
NHS winter crisis fears grow after thousands of EU staff quit
Mass resignations after Brexit vote compound health staffing shortages
Regarding your 2nd article, it’s from 2019, we’ve since had the worst year in living memory for the NHS and it’s still functioned, so it cannot have affected it that badly.
My current boss used to be in charge of recruitment in one area of the NHS, he said they were never short of nursing applications and it was how the whole thing operated as an organisation that caused issues with personnel numbers.
Have you thought that those EU migrants who had left 2016-2019 may have been replaced?
D
D
Deleted member 77198
Guest
On that second article; a few months after that was written, despite EU nationals leaving the NHS, it was published that NHS Hospital & Community Health Service (HCHS) staff numbers by March 2020 were 4.4% (48,220) higher than in March 2019.
NHS winter crisis fears grow after thousands of EU staff quit
Mass resignations after Brexit vote compound health staffing shortages
The number of nurses working in the NHS in England had increased by more than 12,000 in that previous 12 months.
This did not include returning ex-nurses who came back to the NHS because of COVID. These were new jobs.
There was a decline in health care visitors, however.
But there is due to be a large increase in NHS staff over the coming years.
NHS Workforce Statistics - March 2020 - NHS England Digital
NHS workforce statistics, part of a monthly series showing staff numbers in England over time, by staff group, region and organisation. This data is available back to September 2009 for all months to current.
digital.nhs.uk
Didsbury Dave
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 1 Feb 2007
- Messages
- 39,241
I can’t believe you fucking posted that.
If you don't think the Telegraph is a Tory paper you're not objective.
Why? Which paper do you like?
More from NON-EU countries, and I don't rely on non-objective sources like the Torygraph.
Leavers:
"Nurses and health visitors are the only staff group to record a fall in the number of recorded EU nationals since the EU referendum. EU nurses as a percentage of those with a known nationality have fallen from 7.4% of the total to 6.0%. EU doctors have fallen to 9.1% from 9.7%, having risen as high as 9.9% in March 2017."
Joiners:
"The data shows that EU/EEA nationals have fallen as a percentage of all joiners to the NHS since 2015/16, from 10.9% to 7.2%. Meanwhile, the percentage of joiners with a non-EU/EEA nationality has risen from 8.7% in 2014/15 to 14.5% in 2019."
NHS staff from overseas: statistics - House of Commons Library
Over 67,000 NHS staff in England are EU nationals - 5.5% of all staff. Overall, 13.8% of NHS staff say that their nationality is not British. Facts and figures on the nationality of NHS staff for doctors, nurses and other groups, and changes since the Brexit vote.
commonslibrary.parliament.uk
Last edited:
The Telegraph is a small c conservative biased paper, but it’s often highly critical of the Tories.
Their opinion columns feature remain supporters and leavers. There’s the former leader of the Social Democrats who’s had more articles than anyone recently, they’re an economically left wing party if you didn’t know, in between the Liberals and Traditional Labour.
This is almost laughable, now you’re making arguments for other people so you can manufacture a response to win an argument.No, because I don't rely on non-objective sources like the Torygraph.
Leavers:
"Nurses and health visitors are the only staff group to record a fall in the number of recorded EU nationals since the EU referendum. EU nurses as a percentage of those with a known nationality have fallen from 7.4% of the total to 6.0%. EU doctors have fallen to 9.1% from 9.7%, having risen as high as 9.9% in March 2017."
Joiners:
"The data shows that EU/EEA nationals have fallen as a percentage of all
joiners to the NHS since 2015/16, from 10.9% to 7.2%. Meanwhile, the
percentage of joiners with a non-EU/EEA nationality has risen from
8.7% in 2014/15 to 14.5% in 2019."
NHS staff from overseas: statistics - House of Commons Library
Over 67,000 NHS staff in England are EU nationals - 5.5% of all staff. Overall, 13.8% of NHS staff say that their nationality is not British. Facts and figures on the nationality of NHS staff for doctors, nurses and other groups, and changes since the Brexit vote.
Deary me.
Anyway, I don’t just rely on the Telegraph, I also read the Independent, BBC, Times and even occasionally the Guardian. This is a weird thing in 2021 but I actually
want to hear from those I generally disagree with.
Didsbury Dave
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 1 Feb 2007
- Messages
- 39,241
It’s not about what I like. It’s about recognising bias. The Telegraph’s demographic is old posh Tories and it is by far the most right wing of the broadsheets, including pandering to that demographic’s xenophobia. It’s as biased right wing as the Guardian is left wing. The Indeoendant is left leaning but not as far as The Guardian. The Times is the closest we have to sitting towards the middle. All of them might occasionally have articles which go against their core beliefs but it’s about 1%.
I’d agree with the 2nd half of that but I genuinely think you’re being a bit harsh on the Telegraph. It’s a small c conservative paper that does attack the government when they deserve it and sometimes they bash the Tories when I’ve thought they’ve been a little harsh.
I would say in terms of political leanings on a political compass, the Times is in the middle, with it being straddled by the Telegraph and Independent, then the Guardian is way out on the left, often engaging in identity politics.
The reason I see the Telegraph as objective is that whilst they have political bias, they will criticise their own side when they’re not good enough.
They’re not just a Tory mouth piece, like the Indy is a LibDem mouth piece and the Guardian Labour.
No idea what the first sentence means.
I guess you think the Independent is independent! Owned by a Russian security-risk mate of Johnson, rewarded with a peerage. Baron Lebedev of Hampton and Siberia.
Mr Kobayashi
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 1 Oct 2020
- Messages
- 17,873
The Guardian isn't as left wing as some would like to think, particularly when they or their sister paper have a habit of backing the Lib Dems in general elections when they have no chance of winning a majority.
Didsbury Dave
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 1 Feb 2007
- Messages
- 39,241
I don’t believe you are being in any way objective about this mate. I have smelt a fairly hard right wing undercurrent to some of your views for a while to be honest despite you being once a remainer. That’s not a criticism, it’s your opinion to have and you’re not a blinkered idiot or thick like some on these threads.
This is old now but is probably a good summary. https://www.oxford-royale.com/articles/a-guide-to-british-newspapers/
Anyway, I can’t be arsed with what is a fairly shit and dull discussion. I’m off to watch the rest of the battle of wankers ;-)
hilts
Well-Known Member
The New World
All the latest news, commentary and analysis on Brexit from The New World
www.theneweuropean.co.uk
Would be my bet:-)
There’s nothing hard right about my views, believe me. Hard right means generally ethno-politics and I hate that more than anything else, even more than communism. Both fringes, left and right are authoritarian and I hate that style of government too.
Not that I am going to nor will you read it, but if I wrote my entire views and why I supported each one, you’d think I was soft more than anything.
My point on the papers is this, I don’t mind if they have political bias, I actually expect it, but call out the party that you agree with most if they do something wrong... which the TG does to be fair to them.
Len Rum
Well-Known Member
I do agree with your comments on the Telegraph - it has become a client newspaper for the Tory party.
Not so sure with the rest of your analysis.
The Times is full on Tory ( it's owned by Murdoch).
The Indy is liberal.
The Guardian is left of centre ( in UK terms that is i.e. not very left).
Unlike it's Tory rivals the Guardian does not give unconditional support for Labour.
The British press (in terms of the number of pro Conservative papers and circulation) has become virtually a mouthpiece for the Tory party and is a national disgrace.