Political relations between UK-EU

[Vic]

I know you haven’t posted much since you joined the forum four years ago but you do realise how quoting and replying works right?

The poster I quoted, Vic, said he wants to Change British culture to be more tolerant of other cultures, I am merely saying we don’t and shouldn’t have to.

He was the one who brought up the Chinese government and their culture and I am just as confused as you are about what he meant, he’s not responded to me.

You might want to ask him what he wants to change about our culture to accommodate others and what the Chinese government has to do with culture.

Did you miss this?

Sorry if it was a bit cryptic, but if you think Chinese culture hasn't changed in a thousand years, I can see the problem. And I am assuming that the Cultural Revolution actually affected Chinese culture.

And as to what I think of my own country, well right now, I don't like it much. I was listening last week to a quote from when we joined the EEC in 1973, someone saying that the other nations already in the EEC had not lost their own distinctive national identity (he might have said culture). My problem is that from feeling Britain was a great place to be, and I was lucky to have been born here, four years of Brexitism have left me thinking the distinctive national identity of England is not what I thought it was. I hate to use the word, but some aspects of it I do hate. It's a green and pleasant land with some deeply dark and unpleasant attitudes (beyond just differences of opinion on what's best for the country). I am hopeful that the growing generations will not become infected with it.

Since Theresa May said it, I have rather embraced the "citizen of nowhere" badge - that sort of labelling is part of what I hate, but it means my being British is now just an accident of birth, and if I could (like in NI) have chosen to be an EU citizen rather than British, then an EU citizen I would remain. I'm almost sorry I became so tied to City - without that, perhaps I might have looked to live abroad - and while holidays abroad are not exactly a good test, there have been many places where I have thought "I could happily live here".

 

[Ban-jani]

Did you miss this?

Sorry if it was a bit cryptic, but if you think Chinese culture hasn't changed in a thousand years, I can see the problem. And I am assuming that the Cultural Revolution actually affected Chinese culture.

And as to what I think of my own country, well right now, I don't like it much. I was listening last week to a quote from when we joined the EEC in 1973, someone saying that the other nations already in the EEC had not lost their own distinctive national identity (he might have said culture). My problem is that from feeling Britain was a great place to be, and I was lucky to have been born here, four years of Brexitism have left me thinking the distinctive national identity of England is not what I thought it was. I hate to use the word, but some aspects of it I do hate. It's a green and pleasant land with some deeply dark and unpleasant attitudes (beyond just differences of opinion on what's best for the country). I am hopeful that the growing generations will not become infected with it.

Since Theresa May said it, I have rather embraced the "citizen of nowhere" badge - that sort of labelling is part of what I hate, but it means my being British is now just an accident of birth, and if I could (like in NI) have chosen to be an EU citizen rather than British, then an EU citizen I would remain. I'm almost sorry I became so tied to City - without that, perhaps I might have looked to live abroad - and while holidays abroad are not exactly a good test, there have been many places where I have thought "I could happily live here".

Yes I did miss it, had a lot of notifications from the City stuff so apologies.

I never said Chinese culture didn’t change, I am just saying China has had its own unique culture for thousands of years, some of it has been maintained. I still do not know what you meant by saying my dislike of the Chinese Communist Party, has anything to do with the Chinese and their culture. I don’t like the communist party because of how they treat Hong Kong and the Muslims in the north, let’s not forget a major power in the 21st century has re-education camps, that you don’t have a choice about attending or not. They also lied about the pandemic and still do to this day.

What has that opinion got to do with Chinese citizens being satisfied with their own culture?

What you think about your own country is absolutely depressing, it truly is and moreover it’s wrong.

I think it stems with a bitterness about those who disagree with you, not necessarily “deeply dark unpleasant attitudes”. If you really think leaving the EU was that, then you’re a little delusional. Of course the likes of the BNP wanted to leave but the vast majority of leavers are decent enough people for societal standards.

If you actually want to look for “deeply dark unpleasant attitudes” look no further than who you voted for in December and the rampant racism coming from that party.

Britain, including all home nations, is one of the most progressive and tolerant countries on the planet. You could move to 99% of other countries and you would find race relations and tolerance to be worse than here.

Even our neighbours in Europe have deeper issues than here, the far right here is a bunch of pissed up football hooligans on a march, in Germany and France they’re organised political movements gaining seats in their parliament.

England specifically is very tolerant, we don’t have the same sectarianism as found in Glasgow or Belfast, all of our cities are liberal and our right wing movement is small c Conservative in social matters, even possibly liberal.

Now Brexit is out of the way with the majority of the public’s discussion, leavers vs remainers will be left behind.

I find the people of Britain to be a mixture of people. We have some of the best, some very truly brilliant people and minds and we seem to punch above our weight in many areas.

Of course we have idiots, like everyone does and looking at the idiots during COVID-19, all you have to do is read the latest poll in France, where only 40% of people are willing to take the vaccine.

The issue you have is, patriots to you are the worse people because you don’t like the country. Patriots probably want you to leave and shut the door on your way out.

I will be totally honest here and don’t take too much offence... to see thousands travelling in the back of lorries and on dinghies, through the whole of Europe, to get to our country, because they know what a great country it is, where they’ll have more opportunity, only to hear you moaning about how grim it is... makes me think you’re ungrateful and a bitter left wing child who isn’t getting his own way, so throwing toys out of the pram.

This last bit may be a tad harsh and I’ve tried to steer away from personal stuff but that is my genuine opinion.

It’s not just your issue, I hammer the Tories on this forum and not one Tory has me on ignore, I currently have 4 Labour voters who I know are ignoring me, they cannot take disagreement.

 

[Vic]

Yes I did miss it, had a lot of notifications from the City stuff so apologies.

I never said Chinese culture didn’t change, I am just saying China has had its own unique culture for thousands of years, some of it has been maintained. I still do not know what you meant by saying my dislike of the Chinese Communist Party, has anything to do with the Chinese and their culture. I don’t like the communist party because of how they treat Hong Kong and the Muslims in the north, let’s not forget a major power in the 21st century has re-education camps, that you don’t have a choice about attending or not. They also lied about the pandemic and still do to this day.

What has that opinion got to do with Chinese citizens being satisfied with their own culture?

What you think about your own country is absolutely depressing, it truly is and moreover it’s wrong.

I think it stems with a bitterness about those who disagree with you, not necessarily “deeply dark unpleasant attitudes”. If you really think leaving the EU was that, then you’re a little delusional. Of course the likes of the BNP wanted to leave but the vast majority of leavers are decent enough people for societal standards.

If you actually want to look for “deeply dark unpleasant attitudes” look no further than who you voted for in December and the rampant racism coming from that party.

Britain, including all home nations, is one of the most progressive and tolerant countries on the planet. You could move to 99% of other countries and you would find race relations and tolerance to be worse than here.

Even our neighbours in Europe have deeper issues than here, the far right here is a bunch of pissed up football hooligans on a march, in Germany and France they’re organised political movements gaining seats in their parliament.

England specifically is very tolerant, we don’t have the same sectarianism as found in Glasgow or Belfast, all of our cities are liberal and our right wing movement is small c Conservative in social matters, even possibly liberal.

Now Brexit is out of the way with the majority of the public’s discussion, leavers vs remainers will be left behind.

I find the people of Britain to be a mixture of people. We have some of the best, some very truly brilliant people and minds and we seem to punch above our weight in many areas.

Of course we have idiots, like everyone does and looking at the idiots during COVID-19, all you have to do is read the latest poll in France, where only 40% of people are willing to take the vaccine.

The issue you have is, patriots to you are the worse people because you don’t like the country. Patriots probably want you to leave and shut the door on your way out.

I will be totally honest here and don’t take too much offence... to see thousands travelling in the back of lorries and on dinghies, through the whole of Europe, to get to our country, because they know what a great country it is, where they’ll have more opportunity, only to hear you moaning about how grim it is... makes me think you’re ungrateful and a bitter left wing child who isn’t getting his own way, so throwing toys out of the pram.

This last bit may be a tad harsh and I’ve tried to steer away from personal stuff but that is my genuine opinion.

It’s not just your issue, I hammer the Tories on this forum and not one Tory has me on ignore, I currently have 4 Labour voters who I know are ignoring me, they cannot take disagreement.

Well, thanks for telling me how I feel, and that I'm wrong. And absolutely twisting my words to feed your own obsessions. And calling me unpatriotic - I'd probably be insulted but I'm quite content that I've been doing the patriotic thing for five years by trying to stop the country's self-harm.

 

[Ban-jani]

Well, thanks for telling me how I feel, and that I'm wrong. And absolutely twisting my words to feed your own obsessions. And calling me unpatriotic - I'd probably be insulted but I'm quite content that I've been doing the patriotic thing for five years by trying to stop the country's self-harm.

It’s only my opinion based on your attack on the country and it’s people.

I too wanted to remain but because it’s not happened, I haven’t then turned on the population and tried to insinuate we live in a “green and pleasant land, with deeply unpleasant attitudes”.

Sometimes people don’t agree with you.

 

[BobKowalski]

It’s still biased towards Europeans who are the same ethnicity as ourselves.

It‘s called the European Union.

I can provide maps...

 

[Ban-jani]

It‘s called the European Union.

I can provide maps...

And we’re talking about it’s immigration policy...

You are the one who wants to extend FoM to elsewhere, surely you should be talking about how the EU needs to let other people in?

 

[BobKowalski]

Its actually a subset of Europe which doesn't include all of the white Christian countries, and doesn't include any of the Muslim ones - like Bosnia and Herzogovina, for example. They've applied for EU membership but are a long way off getting in.

Bosnia is currently undergoing the ‘Stabilisation and Association Process’ and trade relations are regulated by an Interim Agreement.

 

[BobKowalski]

And we’re talking about it’s immigration policy...

You are the one who wants to extend FoM to elsewhere, surely you should be talking about how the EU needs to let other people in?

Several European countries are in the process for membership, Ukraine and Bosnia are two of them. Albania another. If successful they will enjoy the benefits of Freedom of movement.

 

[Ban-jani]

Several European countries are in the process for membership, Ukraine and Bosnia are two of them. Albania another. If successful they will enjoy the benefits of Freedom of movement.

What about extending FoM to non European countries and allowing more to enter from elsewhere?

Surely there’s only benefits of doing such a thing?

 

[Ric]

I am far from a supporter of the Conservatives, or indeed this PM - but I do think that they have an instinct for survival - and for them to survive 2024 they need to be able to point at 'hard differences' that they have made in 'levelling up' - and ideally how those improvements were only possible due to Brexit.

I think that some on here might be surprised about the policies, priorities and decisions that will come forwards in the next 12-18 months

Sadly, I don’t think any of us will be at all surprised about the policies, priorities and decisions that will come forwards in the next 12-18 months. Even Tory MPs are starting to get anxious it.