Political relations between UK-EU

[crazyg]

When you know Brexit is shit, and yes, it's those pesky supply chains again :)

So does that mean that the shit is already beginning to hit the fan?
;-)

 

[Octavian]

Wrong.

The £350m on the side of the bus for the NHS was untrue.

The claim about recovering sovereignty was a lie. If you understood what sovereignty was, you knew we hadn't lost it. Those who said we needed to leave to recover our sovereignty either didn't know what sovereignty was or did know but were lying.

The claims that we needed to leave the EU to be able to curb immigration were untrue. We always had the ability to curb immigration, we just chose not to use it.

The idea that we could retain full free movement of goods and services whilst abandoning freedom of movement was a lie.

The idea that departure from the CU/SM was consistent with the Good Friday Agreement was untrue. Suggestions a 'technological solution' would overcome that problem were untrue because the technology didn't then and still doesn't exist.

The suggestion that we were powerless to prevent Turkey accessing the EU was a lie.

There are many more examples of things that were said by Leave at the time that were called out as being untrue. These things were out there in the public domain for those who took the time to understand the arguments. You, if your earlier posts are to be taken at face value, were one of the ones who didn't.

And since you mention me, I knew exactly what I was voting for. I wasn't sure what I was voting against, because some people said leaving didn't mean we would leave the Single Market, others said it did. Some said the vote would be purely advisory, which in law it was, others said it would be an instruction from the British people. But I recognise a crock of shit when I see one, and that's exactly what Leave were. And I recognised each of the above instances and many more as being a pack of lies.

I don't give a shit which way you voted. You voted from a position of ignorance. So did many others, and their votes, cast in ignorance, without a clue what they were voting for and without understanding what the consequences of leaving would be, are responsible for the biggest act of economic self-harm any nation has inflicted upon itself in peacetime. I do hold them responsible for that. You are free to forgive that ignorant act of economic vandalism if you want to, that's up to you, but don't you dare presume that you can tell me who I can and cannot hold responsible for the shitstorm that has been created.

'Biggest act of economic self-harm ever' is not, by the way, a forecast, it is a description of where we are right now. Already more than £1 trillion has quietly been moved out of the UK economy since the Brexit vote that would otherwise be in circulation within the UK. Try researching how much Mark Carney spent the day after the result to avoid the worst case scenario after the the vote to leave. We have cut ourselves off from being able to trade freely - as in without tariffs and quotas or not-tariff barriers - with the biggest single economic bloc in the world.

And why? Because people, like you, who didn't have a fucking clue what they were doing, voted for it.

some of what you’ve listed is true, some of it is untrue.

We have gained powers away from Brussels, sovereignty means supreme power and some aspects of our membership were controlled from Brussels and some from London.

We could kick EU migrants out who became a burden on the state after 3 months but we couldn’t stop them coming in.

Again, I voted the same way as you, the difference is you think you knew exactly what would happen and I’m happy to say I didn’t really know enough so stuck with the status quo.

You don’t care how I voted yet are ranting at me?

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

some of what you’ve listed is true, some of it is untrue.

We have gained powers away from Brussels, sovereignty means supreme power and some aspects of our membership were controlled from Brussels and some from London.

We could kick EU migrants out who became a burden on the state after 3 months but we couldn’t stop them coming in.

Again, I voted the same way as you, the difference is you think you knew exactly what would happen and I’m happy to say I didn’t really know enough so stuck with the status quo.

You don’t care how I voted yet are ranting at me?

We were always sovereign.

We didn't need the EU to ask for a referendum nor was there anything they could do to stop us from leaving.

Non sovereign territories, regions, autonomous areas etc, such as Scotland and Catalonia have to ask permission to hold referendums.

 

[Octavian]

We were always sovereign.

We didn't need the EU to ask for a referendum nor was there anything they could do to stop us from leaving.

Non sovereign territories, regions, autonomous areas etc, such as Scotland and Catalonia have to ask permission to hold referendums.

Sovereign is maybe the wrong term but without leaving there was power in Brussels.

 

[dave_blue12]

Sovereign is maybe the wrong term but without leaving there was power in Brussels.

Leaving hasn't really changed that. Except we no longer have a say in how that power is wielded.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Wrong.

The £350m on the side of the bus for the NHS was untrue.

The claim about recovering sovereignty was a lie. If you understood what sovereignty was, you knew we hadn't lost it. Those who said we needed to leave to recover our sovereignty either didn't know what sovereignty was or did know but were lying.

The claims that we needed to leave the EU to be able to curb immigration were untrue. We always had the ability to curb immigration, we just chose not to use it.

The idea that we could retain full free movement of goods and services whilst abandoning freedom of movement was a lie.

The idea that departure from the CU/SM was consistent with the Good Friday Agreement was untrue. Suggestions a 'technological solution' would overcome that problem were untrue because the technology didn't then and still doesn't exist.

The suggestion that we were powerless to prevent Turkey accessing the EU was a lie.

There are many more examples of things that were said by Leave at the time that were called out as being untrue. These things were out there in the public domain for those who took the time to understand the arguments. You, if your earlier posts are to be taken at face value, were one of the ones who didn't.

And since you mention me, I knew exactly what I was voting for. I wasn't sure what I was voting against, because some people said leaving didn't mean we would leave the Single Market, others said it did. Some said the vote would be purely advisory, which in law it was, others said it would be an instruction from the British people. But I recognise a crock of shit when I see one, and that's exactly what Leave were. And I recognised each of the above instances and many more as being a pack of lies.

I don't give a shit which way you voted. You voted from a position of ignorance. So did many others, and their votes, cast in ignorance, without a clue what they were voting for and without understanding what the consequences of leaving would be, are responsible for the biggest act of economic self-harm any nation has inflicted upon itself in peacetime. I do hold them responsible for that. You are free to forgive that ignorant act of economic vandalism if you want to, that's up to you, but don't you dare presume that you can tell me who I can and cannot hold responsible for the shitstorm that has been created.

'Biggest act of economic self-harm ever' is not, by the way, a forecast, it is a description of where we are right now. Already more than £1 trillion has quietly been moved out of the UK economy since the Brexit vote that would otherwise be in circulation within the UK. Try researching how much Mark Carney spent the day after the result to avoid the worst case scenario after the the vote to leave. We have cut ourselves off from being able to trade freely - as in without tariffs and quotas or not-tariff barriers - with the biggest single economic bloc in the world.

And why? Because people, like you, who didn't have a fucking clue what they were doing, voted for it.

That is a factual description of what was known prior to the vote. those that articulated it were attacked as ‘project fear’ whilst mindless soundbites attracted the hard of thinking. It doesn’t touch on some of the criminality that surrounded the leave campaign either.

You would have thought that this would be enough damage for liar Johnson to inflict on the British people but no. We have his handling of the pandemic, crony corruption and more recently Afghanistan thrown in for kicks and giggles. Plenty more where that came from too.

 

[BobKowalski]

some of what you’ve listed is true, some of it is untrue.

We have gained powers away from Brussels, sovereignty means supreme power and some aspects of our membership were controlled from Brussels and some from London.

We could kick EU migrants out who became a burden on the state after 3 months but we couldn’t stop them coming in.

Again, I voted the same way as you, the difference is you think you knew exactly what would happen and I’m happy to say I didn’t really know enough so stuck with the status quo.

You don’t care how I voted yet are ranting at me?

Our sovereignty was never at issue. All EU nations are sovereign nations. Every nation has the power to withdraw from the bloc and there is nothing the bloc can do to prevent this. That is sovereignty. The power to determine the direction of a nation.

What you are describing is subcontracting. Instead of an EU body deciding that chemical A is safe to use on behalf of 27 nations, we now set up our own body to decide for ourselves that, yes, chemical A is safe to use.

 

[Octavian]

Leaving hasn't really changed that. Except we no longer have a say in how that power is wielded.

To be honest I’m sorry I ever posted on this thread.

I’ve had enough haha

 

[Saddleworth2]

Sovereign is maybe the wrong term but without leaving there was power in Brussels.

Mate, what power are you talking about? You really have to be more specific. The European Parliament? The ECJ? It didn’t grow in a vacuum. It was there because it’s members put it there. We were not excluded from that decision making. Much of the control and standards that helped the world turn like authorising new drugs, or ensuring aviation safety standards was also pooled in the EU? Is that the kind of power you are talking about?

 

[west didsblue]

Mate, what power are you talking about? You really have to be more specific. The European Parliament? The ECJ? It didn’t grow in a vacuum. It was there because it’s members put it there. We were not excluded from that decision making. Much of the control and standards that helped the world turn like authorising new drugs, or ensuring aviation safety standards was also pooled in the EU? Is that the kind of power you are talking about?

It's just typical meaningless Brexiteer nonsense. Soundbites with no understanding of reality. The only difference this time is that it's being spouted by someone who says he voted Remain as if that gives him some sort of credibility.