It wasn't a "procuration dogma". I can't offhand think of anything else where the EU centralises procurement. It was with the noble aim of fairly distributing vaccines according to the population of each country rather than a free-for-all that would see wealthier countries outbidding poorer countries and competing with other countries for priority deliveries. Put the clock back to April last year, and (with hindsight) see how the UK does if there is no EU co-operation, just a scramble to get in first, with possibly a bidding war for priority.
It's gone wrong for the EU, but without what you call a procurement dogma and I call a noble attempt at fair access, the UK might not be in such a good position. I'm not sure you're right about what Merkel and Macron wanted but, on your way of working, what would be the consequences for the UK if EU countries had not co-operated on supplying material for AstraZeneca?
And the "hate your country" stuff should stop. It's desperately shallow. Pride in Britain is fine (not least what Oxford has done) but it's still an international team with international money, and I certainly hope that in the end putting Britain first (so that less vulnerable people here have priority over more vulnerable people elsewhere) does not mean the virus is eradicated less quickly.
Put it this way - what's your priority? Getting vaccinated yourself, or eradicating Coronavirus?
(Maybe I'm the only person on here that listens to "The Moral Maze"
All fair positions to hold. The main points I would make on trade with RoW are twofold; firstly we were always hamstrung by EU tariffs when trying to negotiate anything which leaves them thinking why bother and secondly being in the EU has left us having inward looking trade policies and strategies. This doesn’t mean somehow being free of the “shackles” of EU federalism and protectionism is automatically going to lead us to sunny uplands but I don’t think we can really judge it yet (either way)
Now here is a topic that I could really enjoy people getting into.I’d be amazed if they didn’t have centralised procurement processes already... otherwise the EU picked a hell of a subject to break their CCP virginity on! Unless it was done for vanity reasons of course?
UK order of 100m vaccinations is being produced at 2 plants
EU order of 400m vaccinations is being produced at 2 plants.
Ignoring all this contact shit. I’m not saying the problem is obviously, but it probably is
So far Japan, Australia and New Zealand's ministers have all welcomed our application.When she says she has notified them of our intent to join she surely means apply? A pedantic point maybe and I’m sure there’s no doubt we’ll be welcomed but I don’t like the implication we can just walk in there.
I would be interested to know what is the process for joining this club?
And it could get even better - and with more delicious irony.You’ll welcome our joining the Asia-Pacific trading bloc then yes? Even more so if the US and China join it, yes?
You’ll celebrate that then, yes?
If the establishment in this country and the EU had been happy for the EU to remain a simple trading bloc we would still be in. The referendum if it had even needed to happen would have returned a 90% Remain vote.
We are now faced with the prospect that this country , within a few short years, could be in a trading bloc with the USA, China, and most of Asia as well as having a free trade deal with the EU.
That’s a pretty glorious thought, yes?
You’re welcome.
That's good, I'm not knocking it I'm trying it understand it. I know it's very different to the EU but is there a process to follow to join and are there commitments we have to make to be part of the club. I have no doubt that we will join unless someone can point out to me how it will be difficult.So far Japan, Australia and New Zealand's ministers have all welcomed our application.
That then is a UK problem. You don’t sink the boat that is working nicely on the off chance a better boat may come along.
There are plenty of EU countries that trade very well with the RoW and enjoy the benefits of the Single Market. There are plenty of UK companies that do so as well. The idea you need to torch your position in the richest free trade bloc on the planet to enjoy better exports to India is risible.
There is no economic argument, the decision to leave the EU and to stay outside the Single Market is a political one, not an economic one.
Now wouldn't that be a hoot!Fast forward a few years and the EU could be the junior party seeking to secure a FTA with a larger bloc - that includes the UK
Right EU - what are you going to give the CPTPP nations for free access to our market? LolAnd it could get even better - and with more delicious irony.
Fast forward a few years and the EU could be the junior party seeking to secure a FTA with a larger bloc - that includes the UK
I will not get ahead of myself, I am just delighted to be free of the EU project
Almost all of the Remainer argument for years has been about the impact on trading - without any recognition that the Remain vote would have been a landslide if the EU ideologues had been content with the EU being a trading bloc.
It is a fantastic blend of hypocrisy, irony and denial - really quite amusing to observe
The EU is planning to do the exact same thing.That's good, I'm not knocking it I'm trying it understand it. I know it's very different to the EU but is there a process to follow to join and are there commitments we have to make to be part of the club. I have no doubt that we will join unless someone can point out to me how it will be difficult.
I'm still not convinced that increasing trade with the rest of the world at the possible expense of trade with our nearest neighbours is the best things for the planet and I'd need convincing that it is a better deal for us economically as well.
Indeed that needs to be consideredJust a thought, but maybe because we're not in the EU and we're being supplied from UK AstraZenica production facilities that are frankly F All to do with the EU.
And even in that not unrealistic scenario, some would still argue against it forever decrying the effectiveness of Great British democracy.And it could get even better - and with more delicious irony.
Fast forward a few years and the EU could be the junior party seeking to secure a FTA with a larger bloc - that includes the UK
I will not get ahead of myself, I am just delighted to be free of the EU project
Almost all of the Remainer argument for years has been about the impact on trading - without any recognition that the Remain vote would have been a landslide if the EU ideologues had been content with the EU being a trading bloc.
It is a fantastic blend of hypocrisy, irony and denial - really quite amusing to observe
If we stayed in the EU and they did a trade deal with Australia, China et Al, would you have wanted the UK govt to veto the deal on account of its impact on the climate.?That's good, I'm not knocking it I'm trying it understand it. I know it's very different to the EU but is there a process to follow to join and are there commitments we have to make to be part of the club. I have no doubt that we will join unless someone can point out to me how it will be difficult.
I'm still not convinced that increasing trade with the rest of the world at the possible expense of trade with our nearest neighbours is the best things for the planet and I'd need convincing that it is a better deal for us economically as well.
It was working in the way it was intended but it’s main growth opportunities centre around increasing the EU membership - and it’s taken a real hit in that regard. Trade was predicted to pretty stagnant within the EU unlike the RoW (at least pre-covid and pre-brexit). The EMs you so easily dismiss are actually the key growth areas of the global economy and the EU is a dinosaur when it comes to trade negotiations - took nearly 20 years to do the one with the Mercosur bloc for crying out loud.
Lets give brexit time before we call it on the body, we are where we are, just got to get on with it now. None of us can change it until at least the next election anyway.
I’m curious thou, at the time of the brexit referendum there was TTIPs lurking in the shadows... what did you think about that?
Right EU - what are you going to give the CPTPP nations for free access to our market? Lol
I'll take that as a 'no'Sorry - thought the answer was obvious in my reply - but to be more explicit:
You ask: does this mean you're happy with price rises for all of us?
Well:
1. Nobody is ever going to be happy with price rises that could most certainly have been either avoided or greatly reduced
Not sure how they could've got rid of import duty in a deal?2. Unlike some though I am very much recognising where the responsibility for the level of price rises rests and that is with May and Hammond as they prevented the required planning for happening during 2016-2019 that would have advanced readiness and identified the actions and policies required to mitigate issues
do you think a future tory government will cut the vat?3. But - in the round I am delighted that the UK is free of EU hegemony and I am confident that the damage that a Remainer led government caused for the UK will be relatively short lived and more than worth it - so yes - I am happy
Yes, much clearer.Does that help?
No and no.If we stayed in the EU and they did a trade deal with Australia, China et Al, would you have wanted the UK govt to veto the deal on account of its impact on the climate.?
Or are you a hypocrite?