Post Match Thread: Election 2017

[Chippy_boy]

This is a circular argument. The Labour Party cannot give you what you want.

In the end the Labour party must convince the electorate to vote for them and their policies, if they are unsuccessful then so be it. But there'll be no changing the party using middle England focus groups, those days are gone.

As I say, there's plenty in the Labour party who don't agree with you. You may be right, you may not.

EDIT: It's not what *I* want. I'd prefer the Labour Party to be permanently a party of opposition.

 

[jonmcity]

Here are some of the DUP’s opinions:

Abortion should be “ruled out for rape victims”
The Pope is the Anti-Christ
Gay couples “more likely to abuse children”
“Homosexuality is an abomination”
No gay marriage
“Gays more vile than child abusers”
Attempts to reduce CO2 emissions are “Green propaganda”
Claims that fossil fuels will run out are “nonsense”
“Man-made climate change is a con”
Creationism should be “taught in every school”
Removal of evolutionary teaching from the curriculum
The 60 million-year-old Giant’s Causeway is only 6,000 years old
Line dancing is “sinful”

Sounds like a Trump manifesto

 

[adrianr]

I must be missing something here, but Labour got 40% of the vote, 12,858,652 people. Conservatives got 42.4% of the vote, 13,650,900. Lib dems got 7.4% of the vote, 2,367,048. Why are we saying that the difference in seats shows a clear lack of acceptance of Labour policies in England? A seat can be swung by a single vote, it doesn't make the other votes for that constituency invalid. I don't think there is this gaping chasm between left leaning politics and electoral viability some of you think (or hope).

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2017/results

 

[BlueAnorak]

Any chance this proposed coalition could kick up trouble in Ireland again?

Don't think so. In terms of Brexit Sinn Fain would like to stay in the EU but they pretty much agree with the DUP on what they want for Brexit. (No hard border and a softer Brexit.)
The issue more likely to bring back Irish terrorism is the abeyance of the NI agreement, which will not be even handed now the Tory party is relying on DUP support.

 

[jonmcity]

Another dynamic is this: What happens to the economy.

As everyone knows, money talks, and people traditionally vote with their wallets. The conservatives are at a low ebb after 6 years of austerity. But growth in the west and in the US and the EU is picking up. If the UK economy picks up and we start to be able to invest more; if we start to see real pay increases; if we start to see the benefits of the pain we've endured - then the Conservatives' popularity may increase and make it even more difficult for Labour.

On the other hand, if as a result of the uncertainty over Brexit, things deteriorate from here, the public will doubtless become progressively more disgruntled. In that scenario, I think any Labour opposition - of any leaning - will ultimately win at some point. I know this is contrary to what I said above about hard-left not being the right path for Labour, bu on reflection I think even Corbyn would win if our economy and public services get much worse than they are now.

Growth in the west and in the US and the EU is picking up but in the UK its on its way down. Wage deflation for years. The economy is the reason people are peed off.

 

[dickie davies]

Here are some of the DUP’s opinions:

Abortion should be “ruled out for rape victims”
The Pope is the Anti-Christ
Gay couples “more likely to abuse children”
“Homosexuality is an abomination”
No gay marriage
“Gays more vile than child abusers”
Attempts to reduce CO2 emissions are “Green propaganda”
Claims that fossil fuels will run out are “nonsense”
“Man-made climate change is a con”
Creationism should be “taught in every school”
Removal of evolutionary teaching from the curriculum
The 60 million-year-old Giant’s Causeway is only 6,000 years old
Line dancing is “sinful”

I wish they'd had a candidate in my constituency

I hate line dancing wankers

 

[Lancet Fluke]

I agree.
Her disdain for electorate was obvious from early on in the campaign when she refused to do the TV debates. She came across as smug and assumed that all she had to do was turn up to win. Because of this expectation to win she started going on about things like bringing back fox hunting etc which showed her up as the sort of tory most normal people can't stand. Her campaign was so poor that Labour should actually have won and had they not gone hard left with their leadership and policies they would have done.

Totally agree. Lots of people spinning this as a sign that Corbyn has been a roaring success. I'm of the mind that if there had been a credible opponent May would have been utterly battered. Mind you, she wouldn't have called the election if anyone else had been opposition leader. Either way, May has been exposed as an utter fucking joke.

 

[aguero93:20]

Great turnout amongst the young voters in the UK, looks like the Brexit referendum was a wake up call. Also nice to see the concerted effort by Murdoch and his pals to slur Corbyn didn't work out.

 

[dickie davies]

Totally agree. Lots of people spinning this as a sign that Corbyn has been a roaring success. I'm of the mind that if there had been a credible opponent May would have been utterly battered. Mind you, she wouldn't have called the election if anyone else had been opposition leader. Either way, May has been exposed as an utter fucking joke.

Yet last night Labour supporters on here were predicting that May would smash Corbyn

Perhaps that's just a Man City supporting mentality

 

[BlueAnorak]

Neil Kinnock was predicted to beat Major and didn't. The public couldn't vote for what they saw as a lefitie
John Smith, an extremely charismatic man became leader of Labour and started to convince people in the city that Labour wouldn't decimate the country and he started winning traditional Tory supporters over
Very sadly Smith suffered a heart attack and that's when Shiny Blair took over. Smith had done all the hard work and the Conservatives were in total disarray and smeared in scandal. The momentum had been shifting since Kinnock and a fresh faced Blair rode into town and the survived on the back of an unprecedented world economic boom
As soon as we reverted back to a bust cycle, Labour were out
What Labour require is another John Smith

His name is Dan Jarvis. Sadly for Labour I think that Corbyn has done so well he can't be got rid off.

 

[bluemoonmatt]

Here are some of the DUP’s opinions:

Abortion should be “ruled out for rape victims”
The Pope is the Anti-Christ
Gay couples “more likely to abuse children”
“Homosexuality is an abomination”
No gay marriage
“Gays more vile than child abusers”
Attempts to reduce CO2 emissions are “Green propaganda”
Claims that fossil fuels will run out are “nonsense”
“Man-made climate change is a con”
Creationism should be “taught in every school”
Removal of evolutionary teaching from the curriculum
The 60 million-year-old Giant’s Causeway is only 6,000 years old
Line dancing is “sinful”

Line dancing is a bit shit

 

[adrianr]

Line dancing is a bit shit

Yeah. They nearly lost me, but pulled me back in at the end.

 

[bluemoonmatt]

His name is Dan Jarvis. Sadly for Labour I think that Corbyn has done so well he can't be got rid off.

Yep, or Kier Starmer

 

[BlueHammer85]

Totally agree. Lots of people spinning this as a sign that Corbyn has been a roaring success. I'm of the mind that if there had been a credible opponent May would have been utterly battered. Mind you, she wouldn't have called the election if anyone else had been opposition leader. Either way, May has been exposed as an utter fucking joke.

mocked in PMQ's every time he spoke, half of his party wanted him out not that long ago, Tory supporters cheering his reappointment, the right wing smear from the Murdoch empire... and May announcing this election to put the final nail in his coffin

dam right this a success for Corbyn

 

[bluemoonmatt]

mocked in PMQ's every time he spoke, half of his party wanted him out not that long ago, Tory supporters cheering his reappointment, the right wing smear from the Murdoch empire... and May announcing this election to put the final nail in his coffin

dam right this a success for Corbyn

Is that not the crux of it though. I'm a member and have been vehemently opposed to JC, it cannot be denied the result is an unequivocally successful one given the expectation, but we have still lost. We should be aiming to win elections not limit damage.

 

[jonmcity]

First time he has had the air time in the media to show he is a principled man, who is actually able to debate his point of view. People liked him. May was the opposite.

 

[The perfect fumble]

As I say, there's plenty in the Labour party who don't agree with you. You may be right, you may not.

EDIT: It's not what *I* want. I'd prefer the Labour Party to be permanently a party of opposition.

From your point of view the future looks bright.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Is that not the crux of it though. I'm a member and have been vehemently opposed to JC, it cannot be denied the result is an unequivocally successful one given the expectation, but we have still lost. We should be aiming to win elections not limit damage.

no way Labour could ever have won this by a majority

 

[mat]

Maybot to form a coalition of choas with a terrorist organisation.

My Irony meter has exploded.

 

[jonmcity]

The Labour party still need to win the middle ground, however they are now seen as a genuine alternative to the misery of the conservative policies. Not sure when the next election will be but they are now seen as credible.