Poverty in UK

[I'm With Stupid]

I highlighted your interesting question.

Why do you say it is one of the richest countries in the world?

I mean it's increasingly a good question. But I guess the point I was making was that you hear a lot of this kind of "just suck it up" rhetoric, as if people should just accept their fate. There is also this idea that "the market" is just some sort of neutral economic force, rather than something that is deliberately manipulated by a landlord-class of politicians for their own benefit (be it personally being landlords, or using an inflated property market to prop up poor economic performance in other sectors). I'm not naive enough to just think you can legislate your way out of the issue, but I think it should be a fairly reasonable ambition for a high income country for everyone to be able to buy their own home if they work full time and contribute to the country's economy.

Incidentally, I don't know much about how things work in America, but as I understand it, there are similar issues there and in Australia and Canada too, with insane prices. The fact is that it's not much use having a big country with loads of cheap land if everyone wants to live in the same place because that's where the jobs are (because that's where the wealth is concentrated arguably because of a lack of adequate planning and just letting the 'market' decide). I've also heard (and this may vary from state to state) that you have insane zoning laws over there that basically enforce strict separation of residential and commercial areas, basically forcing everyone into car dependency in many places. And then there's the infamous homeowner associations sticking their oar in and basically operating like unelected planning committees that can bankrupt people and force them out of their homes for not following some arbitrary rules they've put in place. I'm not sure it's as free as you'd like to make out.

 

[PinkFinal]

German TV report about poverty in Britain with English subtitles

 

[Alvin-blue-qhd]

Housing has become an investment. Because housing is stable and indispensable, it has investment value. Because housing has investment value, all wealthy people will buy houses (or land) to maintain their wealth from depreciation. Because wealthy people buy houses, it drives up housing prices. Because housing prices have been rising, the investment value of housing is higher. The higher the investment value of housing, the more wealthy people will buy houses.
When a house is no longer an ordinary commodity, its logic is no longer the ordinary relationship between supply and demand.
People can't afford to buy houses not because of poverty, but because when houses become a financial commodity, they tend to serve those who have the most money.
That's what happening in my country....

 

[TinFoilHat]

Economy isn't about looking at text books and stats. It's about seeing with your own eyes.

City Streets full of homeless and beggars. High streets with no stores open.

Families and kids aimlessly walking around towns and cities because they can't afford to keep their homes running.

Groups of bored kids terrorising staff and passengers on public services.

The people we elect to sort this shit out don't see it because they are in their own little bubble of subsidised meals and drinks in parliament. Have us pay for their homes and holidays. As far as they are concerned they are alright and we can turn into an angrier version of the Hungar games.

 

[BrianW]

An important point is this:

High house prices are great if you already own one.

There are not as many votes in reducing house prices as there are in keeping them high. Because people are selfish cunts.

Add to that, many MPs on both sides of the House own multiple properties and/or are landlords.

Only in a more collectivist society than the UK is there a will to create affordable housing for all. The easy parrot cry is 'Work harder!'

 

[KS55]

I highlighted your interesting question.

Why do you say it is one of the richest countries in the world?

Surely, your own answer, given the rest of your post, would suggest it isn’t, would it not?

When you try to buy a house, who are you trying to buy it from? Is THAT person rich? How did THEY buy the house?

It seems that the MARKET has determined the price of a residential home, and that market is driven by workers.

Now, I understand that interest rates have made mortgages more expensive, and if the people trying to sell are getting the price they want, it makes the monthly payment more expensive. Got it. But that has always been the case!

Just wait, as interest rates come down, prices who go up quickly again, because you can now afford more house.

It might not be a popular opinion, but education level is often a predictor of future earnings, and those future earnings go up quicker because there are usually less qualified candidates and often higher demand for the jobs.

Simple example:
If I earn $50 and you earn $70. We both get 10% raises every year.
$55/77
$60/85…in just 2 yrs, the higher earner has increased their income by 50% MORE, even with the same raise!

Now, if there is higher demand than supply of decent homes, then prices go higher, and yet there are still enough people making the higher incomes to cover the higher cost of the homes.

And, not only does it drive up the prices of higher cost/quality homes, but the low supply of lower cost/quality homes also drives up the cost of those homes, making it harder to afford even less desirable homes.

So, what to do in the era of council houses being sold and prices increasing? It’s not the government driving up the prices…unless you agree that green space should be reduced to allow for significant levels of low cost owner-occupied housing, which does require government intervention via planning permissions and even the release of public lands.

Planning permission is a joke in Britain. Everyone wants to protect everything, yet everyone complains about land and home prices?!

I can buy land almost anywhere in the USA and build almost anything I want on it.

Can’t you just smell the freedom?!

Tbf, there is much more land available in the US. We all live cheek by Jowl in comparison.

 

[BrianW]

I'll have a wee bet that most land in the USA is not owned by a small group of families who came over with William the Bastard in 1066. And also, that people per acre is a shade different too.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

German TV report about poverty in Britain with English subtitles

I don't think it's TV, I think it's a Youtube channel. But still interesting if, I suspect, a little overblown.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

An important point is this:

High house prices are great if you already own one.

There are not as many votes in reducing house prices as there are in keeping them high. Because people are selfish cunts.

But even this is bollocks for most people, isn't it? For most people, your house price is only important if you sell your house, at which point the fact that every other house has increased at the same rate kinda makes it irrelevant. What is really relevant is your house price in relation to others. And even then, most people who've got a house they're happy with aren't usually interested in moving to make a few quid. I feel like house prices are something that is really important to property investors that owners of a single family home have all been convinced is really important for them too. For me, the only ordinary people who should worry about house prices are people who risk ending up in negative equity if it loses value.

I mean I get that you can borrow against the value of your home, but other than that, is there really any benefit to house price increases? If house prices remained the same for the next 10 years (not crashed), would anyone who's not a property investor really suffer?

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Tbf, there is much more land available in the US. We all live cheek by Jowl in comparison.

Not really though. I mean yeah there is, but ultimately they have exactly the same problems we have, which is that good jobs are concentrated in particular places. Look at rent prices in San Fransisco, Vancouver or Sydney. It's insane. I was watching a Youtube video of a woman in Washington DC and she rented a one bedroom flat for $2400. Nearly $29,000 a year just on rent.

You can still get a house for £75,000 in Newcastle, but what's the point if there's no work for you? You'd hope that over time, an increase in remote working would allow people to make a good living somewhere like Newcastle rather than having to congregate around the already overcrowded parts of the country, but owners of vast swathes of office space are doing their best to nip that trend in the bud after covid. Even remote workers are increasingly having to 'show your face once a week,' which limits how far from the office you can live.