Predator drones

[Ducado]

It's always good to look at things through another perspective

First off

If the planes had not driven into the twin towers and other places in the US would the US be in Afghanistan?

The war on terror could stop right now, if the spiritual leaders of the various Salfi groups would call a halt, they have made no indication that they are even willing to stop

Killing Innocent civilians is not right, but neither is it right for combatants to hide among civilians

I sometimes feel that people start to get into hysterics and conspiracy theories, the fact is the US is not targeting civilians they are going after people who they perceive as the enemy

It may in the long term prove to be counter productive, but that's not my point, this is a war the US is waging, war is never pretty people get hurt

There may be lots of underpinning reasons as to why young men seem hell bent on blowing up the west, but that's not the point, as long as they are hell bent on this, the drone attacks will continue

Not often i agree with you, but that just about sums it up for me.

I think on here people get wedded to one viewpoint, and that's it but they forget there are always different ways of looking at things

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

Do not go down the racist route Skansh, you are better than that, there were many Brown/black civilians in the UK,USA and Aus that were victims.
It is about ideology not race.

I have a simple concept, every innocent life is equal. It doesn't matter to me whether it's a British civilian, an American civilian or a Pakistani or an Afghan civilian. I always believe the lives of civilians should be placed ahead of the lives of soldiers, because soldiers signed up with a risk of dying. They consented to it. Civilians don't. There should never be a situation where fifty civilians die to kill one terrorist. The civilised and morally right thing to do is to risk soldiers who consented to fight, to go and arrest them if possible, kill if not. Terrorists should be extracted, charged, and if found guilty sentenced and imprisoned. We did it to Nazi war criminals. It should be what we are doing now. The reality is that the life of a Pakistani or Afghan civilian is worth considerably less than a British or American soldier, and that should not be the case. That is wrong and it is racism. However, we are even getting beyond this right now aren't we.

Go on, try to justify signature strikes to me. Signature strikes for those who don't know are where the identity is unknown and it simply just looks like they might be up to something dodgy i.e. there's no evidence. People on here are somewhat misinformed about the nature of these drone strikes. It is not only civilians in the vicinity of terrorists who are killed, but simply people who fit a pattern. Go on, justify killing someone without evidence. Please, make my day, and fucking justify that for me.

top post, also it is nice to be back on subject.

The guys that makes those drones are billionaires now

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

It's always good to look at things through another perspective

First off

If the planes had not driven into the twin towers and other places in the US would the US be in Afghanistan?

The war on terror could stop right now, if the spiritual leaders of the various Salfi groups would call a halt, they have made no indication that they are even willing to stop

Killing Innocent civilians is not right, but neither is it right for combatants to hide among civilians

I sometimes feel that people start to get into hysterics and conspiracy theories, the fact is the US is not targeting civilians they are going after people who they perceive as the enemy

It may in the long term prove to be counter productive, but that's not my point, this is a war the US is waging, war is never pretty people get hurt

There may be lots of underpinning reasons as to why young men seem hell bent on blowing up the west, but that's not the point, as long as they are hell bent on this, the drone attacks will continue

I really think you are missing the point here.
You cannot use the 'war on terror' to justify a disproportionate targeting of civilians, and I find your glib 'war is never pretty people get hurt' to be somewhat offensive, because I'm fairly sure that if it was you cradling a dying loved one in their arms, then you wouldn't be so crass about indiscriminate killing.
There is never any ethical justification for killing innocent non-combatants as some kind of acceptable collateral damage of war, because once you abandon any concept of human life being precious, you put yourself on the same moral footing as the very terrorists you are fighting.

 

[Plaything of the gods]

For every action there is a reaction. The US is making a lot of enemies from the bereaved. The use of predator drones will come back to bite the USA in some way at some time.

 

[Josh Blue]

I have a simple concept, every innocent life is equal. It doesn't matter to me whether it's a British civilian, an American civilian or a Pakistani or an Afghan civilian. I always believe the lives of civilians should be placed ahead of the lives of soldiers, because soldiers signed up with a risk of dying. They consented to it. Civilians don't. There should never be a situation where fifty civilians die to kill one terrorist. The civilised and morally right thing to do is to risk soldiers who consented to fight, to go and arrest them if possible, kill if not. Terrorists should be extracted, charged, and if found guilty sentenced and imprisoned. We did it to Nazi war criminals. It should be what we are doing now. The reality is that the life of a Pakistani or Afghan civilian is worth considerably less than a British or American soldier, and that should not be the case. That is wrong and it is racism. However, we are even getting beyond this right now aren't we.

Go on, try to justify signature strikes to me. Signature strikes for those who don't know are where the identity is unknown and it simply just looks like they might be up to something dodgy i.e. there's no evidence. People on here are somewhat misinformed about the nature of these drone strikes. It is not only civilians in the vicinity of terrorists who are killed, but simply people who fit a pattern. Go on, justify killing someone without evidence. Please, make my day, and fucking justify that for me.

top post, also it is nice to be back on subject.

The guys that makes those drones are billionaires now

The war on 'terror' has made a lot of men very rich. Makes you think.

 

[mindmyp's_n_q's]

For every action there is a reaction. The US is making a lot of enemies from the bereaved. The use of predator drones will come back to bite the USA in some way at some time.

They unofficially call it "mowing the grass" I wonder why they chose that description?

 

[Patientman63]

Do not go down the racist route Skansh, you are better than that, there were many Brown/black civilians in the UK,USA and Aus that were victims.
It is about ideology not race.

I have a simple concept, every innocent life is equal. It doesn't matter to me whether it's a British civilian, an American civilian or a Pakistani or an Afghan civilian. I always believe the lives of civilians should be placed ahead of the lives of soldiers, because soldiers signed up with a risk of dying. They consented to it. Civilians don't. There should never be a situation where fifty civilians die to kill one terrorist. The civilised and morally right thing to do is to risk soldiers who consented to fight, to go and arrest them if possible, kill if not. Terrorists should be extracted, charged, and if found guilty sentenced and imprisoned. We did it to Nazi war criminals. It should be what we are doing now. The reality is that the life of a Pakistani or Afghan civilian is worth considerably less than a British or American soldier, and that should not be the case. That is wrong and it is racism. However, we are even getting beyond this right now aren't we.

Go on, try to justify signature strikes to me. Signature strikes for those who don't know are where the identity is unknown and it simply just looks like they might be up to something dodgy i.e. there's no evidence. People on here are somewhat misinformed about the nature of these drone strikes. It is not only civilians in the vicinity of terrorists who are killed, but simply people who fit a pattern. Go on, justify killing someone without evidence. Please, make my day, and fucking justify that for me.

A good post and it highlights two of the biggest problems with modern warfare. Bizarrely, there are rules for warfare which most governments have signed up to. Soldiers of these countries have to follow these rules on how they engage in an “ethical” war.

“Terrorists” ignore these. “Terrorists” do not wear uniforms. “Terrorists” shield themselves with innocent members of the local population; they use women and children not only as shields, but also as weapons, particularly in suicide attacks. They stash weapons, equipment and personnel in schools and medical centres to profit from the press when these places are attacked. They plant shrapnel bombs in packed markets, which are usually filled with women and children.

It is not possible for a modern “ethical” army to fight terrorists and insurgents in a man to man battle. The war is dirty and it is deliberately made so, because for every soldier in the combat area, there is the world press. These “terrorists” are not stupid; they know how to use media to manipulate the situation. Nothing makes you choke on your morning cornflakes more than a dead child on the front page. And if anyone can get rid of or change a government they don’t like, then it’s those people reading that newspaper, the public, the voters.

Which is my second point. There is a very dirty war being fought here, but then war has always been dirty, the only thing that has really changed is the amount of media coverage, now you know it’s dirty, previously you didn’t. You can now ride the actual bomb in on YouTube, right through the house window, you can watch the chain-gun on the Apache attack helicopter rip up the enemy “technicals” in real time, as it happened, body parts and all. There was a recent thread on Bomber Command, when the RAF / USAAF were firebombing the civilian populations of the major German cities in WW2, if the hideous photographs and footage that exist of the aftermath of those raids was circulated everyday in media at the time, I wonder if that would have swayed the actions of the then government?

 

[pominoz]

Are those events the cause of our war or the effect of how terrible the west is towards basically everywhere else? Not to mention I think a lot of people's odd/closed minded views on Islam/Arabs in general probably pushes a lot of non terrorists towards extremism and I can't say I disagree. Don't worry though I'm on the next flight out to get my jihad on

I agree, but what do we do to stop it?
Every country has been fucked over by another, that is the way of the worlds history.
These fanatics are not going to stop until they have what they want ( an Islamist world, where we conform or die), and i am talking about the fanatics, not normal Muslims. What do we do with the fanatics?

The bit I highlighted.....why why why why oh why do you keep saying this?

Because it is the truth, there is an element that will not give up until we do.
Just as there are radical christians that need to be kept an eye on, and fought against.

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

top post, also it is nice to be back on subject.

The guys that makes those drones are billionaires now

The war on 'terror' has made a lot of men very rich. Makes you think.

I read something on why the world needs war especially capitalism. That's another legacy from WW2 as well

 

[Josh Blue]

I agree, but what do we do to stop it?
Every country has been fucked over by another, that is the way of the worlds history.
These fanatics are not going to stop until they have what they want ( an Islamist world, where we conform or die), and i am talking about the fanatics, not normal Muslims. What do we do with the fanatics?

The bit I highlighted.....why why why why oh why do you keep saying this?

Because it is the truth, there is an element that will not give up until we do.
Just as there are radical christians that need to be kept an eye on, and fought against.

Yes but these nutters are no threat. You need to realise they are a minority and have nothing to do with any major terror attack.